The Art of Photography

Ep 59 - How to value your photography so that you’re not undercutting your own price with John Weatherby

Hey Wicked Hunters, Excited to announce this week guest for The Art of Photography Podcast with John Weatherby.
 
John Weatherby, a skilled photographer from Tampa, embarked on his photographic journey while juggling waitering duties during his college years. His initial foray into photography began with managing social media accounts, which sparked an interest in enhancing his photographic skills. This newfound passion led Weatherby to invest in professional gear, including a DSLR camera and lighting equipment.
Breaking away from the hospitality sector, Weatherby turned his lens towards the scenic vistas of Tampa Bay. His unique captures of the city quickly garnered local admiration and underscored his potential to transform his hobby into a thriving career. In 2015, Weatherby established Weatherby Photography, a venture that has since collaborated with prominent names like Uber, the University of Tampa, and the Home Depot.
Renowned for his vibrant and innovative depictions of Tampa, Weatherby excels in presenting the city through a creative lens. His portfolio, however, is not limited to fine art; it also encompasses commercial and architectural photography. Weatherby's philosophy revolves around the gratification of turning a beloved hobby into a sustainable livelihood. He finds immense joy and fulfillment in not only pursuing his passion but also in adding value to the lives and businesses of others through his artistic talent.
 
You can connect and browse through more of John’s work below:
https://linktr.ee/whereisweatherby
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whereisweatherby/
Website and prints: https://johnweatherby.com/
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Transcription
 
John Weatherby  0:00  It gets really confusing really fast. But having guidance from somebody who has experienced and who is like working professionally will help a lot. At the end of the day, you can price your art or your work at whatever you want.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:25  Hey, wicked hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artists journey and show how we can give hope, purpose and happy and today we have someone special, someone who's been in the photography, travel and landscape photography scene for a long, long time, someone who's been very respected in this place. And today, I want to introduce John Weatherby. John, welcome to the podcast, very excited to have you here. How things on your end, I know you're in New York, and at the moment, what's going on? Not much. i Yeah, I'm in New York right now, I taking a break from Van life, I'm usually travelling in my Sprinter van, for the most part, but I like to take a break now and then and rent a place in a big city like New York, because it's just the opposite of Van life. You know, like, you know, Van life can be very remote and inconvenient sometimes, which can be good. But if you're, you know, trying to check out from the busy world, but yeah, New York is like the opposite of that. So just striking a balance, and usually take this time to get caught up on work and filming and stuff like that, where I need like a consistent space. And that's awesome. I know you got I know, you have a really nice backdrop there. And Ben van life is awesome. It's something that is in my bucket list. You know, before COVID I was a wanted to drive down to South America as actually it was literally a week before everything closed down. You know, before I was gonna go out, so yeah, man, I'm, I'm gonna make it, make it back there one day, but that's awesome. So before we get into, you know,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:16  depth into, you know, what are your journey, some of the things that you have been doing in the photography space, share with us a little bit about you? What got you into photography? Like, how do you fall in love with photography? And what make you stay? Yeah.
John Weatherby  2:32  Okay. So when I was finishing school, I was working as a waiter. And I,
John Weatherby  2:40  I've always been kind of entrepreneurial. So I made an arrangement with the restaurant that I worked at, to basically manage their social media, or not manage it, but posts on it periodically, and I would take photos of the food for the Instagram, basically. So I was taking photos of sushi at this restaurant. And then I worked out the tray basically, to where I could take photos of the food and then eat for free, basically. So
John Weatherby  3:09  a professional photographer came into the restaurant one day, and he took photos for the menu. And he had this whole elaborate setup. He had, you know, professional gear, Nikon prime lenses. He had the flash with the umbrellas and all this stuff. So when I saw the photos that he took, compared to my iPhone photos, I was like, blown away. So that was my first I guess, like exposure to photography. And then when I realised that like, I wanted to step my own game up, I reached out to him and got advice on what kind of camera to buy. So I started taking photos at the restaurant first with, you know, a DSLR. And then I started getting curious, and I started going out and taking photos of the skyline around Tampa. I'm from Tampa, Florida. And then people started noticing the photos that I was sharing of this Tampa skyline and asking to buy prints of them. So that you know, set up a light bulb like oh, well I can money from this. And then people started reaching out to me asking me to do photo shoots. So I would get asked to do like headshots for people or take, you know, real estate photos, family photos and stuff like that. So I started doing that as like a side hustle. And through the advice of a mentor. He told me basically if you really like photography, you know continue to work at the restaurant, post graduation and just take on more and more clients until you get so busy that you could leave the restaurant and do photography for work. So that's what I did. And I started doing commercial photography around Tampa Bay and you know, I realised I can make pretty good money with that. So I had a little studio space for a while, and I was doing work with clients like commercial stuff and lifestyle stuff. And then I started using those funds to travel. And, you know, through travelling, I fell in love with travel and landscape photography. So, you know, one, the commercial stuff became a means to the end, I was, you know, flying home to Tampa, you know, booking multiple shoots back to back within a week or two so that I can make money, and then travel, as long as I could on that money, go back and repeat the cycle, until I eventually realised how I can make money through landscape and travel photography, right. So I started doing workshops, I started booking shoots, in different places for commercial clients, to where I can, you know, go to Iceland and take some photos, you know, for example, of a product or work with a company to use their product to take photos or, you know, create content for their marketing and stuff like that in different places. And then, eventually, I started teaching photography more doing workshops and creating courses and created a plugin for Photoshop. And that's kind of where I'm at today.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:24  Yeah, that's amazing. What What a journey it started with the Shushi you must have liked the shoe shoe there. Hey, started
John Weatherby  6:31  off sushi. Now. We're here and
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:34  fantastic. That is awesome. Honestly, I've heard a lot of stories how people started photography. Never ever I heard it started with a sushi. And that's just incredible how, you know, you go from taking photo with an iPhone at a sushi place to where you are today. Yeah, so
John Weatherby  6:51  that's where things will lead. It's, it's, it's crazy looking back all the dots connected, you know? But yeah,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:00  and that's awesome. Because, you know, I think a lot of people are very impatient. And you know, when they're looking at, oh, man, I'm not there. And, you know, they just like, oh, I don't think I'm gonna make it or, you know, what's what's wrong with me? Or why? Why can I make it. But as you say, you know, looking back, connecting the dots and seeing how it all transpired to where it bring you today. I think that's a really powerful message. Now you say you were your post grad, you know, and you're working at the restaurant, and you are doing this as a side hustle. What, what were you studying back then?
John Weatherby  7:35  I was studying advertising and public relations. So my original plan was to become like, an account manager for like an ad agency. So that was kind of my idea. I actually did an internship while I was in school, and then, you know, I realised through that it was at a marketing agency. And I realised that's not really what I was interested in, you know, like, sitting in a desk nine to five every day was pretty dreadful. So I, yeah, I'm, I love, you know, the change of scenery, I love, you know, taking on different projects, and, you know, switching things up and not necessarily having a routine. So photography definitely provide that for me versus, you know, sitting at a desk and doing the same stuff every single day. I gotta came in imagine, yeah, that's awesome. And so, you know, advertising and photography and all that stuff. Content Creation. Yeah.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  8:32  And so, you know, when, when it comes to you shared earlier that, you know, you were you're going through a different phase in photography, and started from just, I guess, you were kind of leaning in from that ad and, and PR side of it, doing it for someone else for that sushi restaurant, and then you kind of transition across, what are what were some of the biggest challenges that you have to making making this full time as a photographer?
John Weatherby  9:03  Yeah, so Well, first and foremost, you know, getting clients, right, which I luckily crack that piece kind of by accident, because, you know, realise I found out the power of social media. So when people started seeing me share my photos with Tampa, that gained exposure in my community, and made people in Tampa aware of my services, right. So luckily, I figured that out early on is that you know, social media is really powerful for getting in front of people organically and, you know, if you do it correctly, you can, you know, target people that are interested in your services specifically, right. So that's one piece to it. Another piece was just figuring out like business right? Like I'm a creative so learning the ins and outs of business, you know, being organised and learning price during negotiation, communication, all this stuff is something that doesn't come naturally to creatives, I feel like so, you know, you, you really do have to learn that stuff. But luckily, there's lots of resources online, you can take on mentor, I reached out to a lot of different photographers, when I was just starting out to get advice on pricing, and working with clients. So I had a service background, right, like, I worked in the service industry, I was a waiter. So luckily, I did have a lot of experience working with people, you know, talking to strangers, interacting and giving good customer service, you know, providing a good experience. So that was, that was something that came a little more natural, but even when I started actually working as a waiter, you know, I had no experience with that. And that was a very awkward and uncomfortable start. So I think if somebody who is getting into the industry and working with clients, you know, is just starting up, that can be a challenge as well. So, yeah, I think the biggest challenge really is figuring out how to make money, how to monetize your passions, and then how to price those, right, and also establishing the value, right, like believing in your value, how much you're worth, and what you can charge and all that stuff. That's all mindset. So I think mindset is a big piece to it, you know, your, your belief about what is possible, you know, needs to be huge. And you can work on that you can grow that and gain competence and charging and your, your abilities through practice and through reaching out to people who have experienced that can share their experience, right? Yeah, that's,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:47  that's a really eye opener there. I know that it took me a long time to realise that the the entrepreneur mindset or a photo printer mindset, a lot of us like to call it versus the artistic mindset is direct opposite one of them is idealistic. One of them is trial and error, right? minimum viable product. And a lot of the whole mindset is is basically direct opposite of, you know, and this is probably one of the reasons why it's very difficult for artists to make it without having that business background. Now. I love what you say there. I think there's a couple of things that you say that really is three things actually, that that's really important, which is first you say believing in your value, the second, the mindset, and third, the confidence behind your product right behind what you're going to charge. Now. I could we, I guess everyone would argue that those three thing is probably one of the hardest thing that we need to do. You know, especially as a photographer, as a creator, as an artist, there's a lot of impostor syndrome, you know, a lot of yeah, just like this internal stuff going on. What would be? Let's, let's first talk about confidence, right? Because I think like, you know, value goes back to confidence, how do you gain that confidence? When you first start it? Right? How do you gain that confidence so that when you put yourself out there, when you put your value out there, people can actually see and believe the
John Weatherby  13:32  value, you gain competence through experience and knowledge, right? So like, the more that you do something, the better you're gonna get at it, the more comfortable you're gonna feel doing it and the more confident you're going to be right. So at first, you're going to need to fake it basically, right? I mean, you can you can learn so what I what I used to do is when somebody would reach out to me for service that I didn't have any experience with, I would find a tutorial, I would go on YouTube find videos, I would find somebody who's selling a course on architecture, photography, on headshot photography, on food photography, product photography, right? I would learn everything that I could, so that I could basically do that job as best as I could. But there is an element of like faking it till you make it as well, right? So you, you kind of have to just, you have to feel uncomfortable, you have to try and do the best you can. And then keep practising and as you learn more, and you practice what you learn, you're going to become better and as you become better, you're going to be more confident, right? So yeah, in my opinion, the confidence comes from the experience and the knowledge and the more that you can learn and the more you can implement what you learn, the more confident you're going to be. But yeah, there is kind of like a I honestly, like, felt so uncomfortable when people reach out to me for, you know, a service that I hadn't really learned or, or like become good at yet. But I would just have to be like, yeah, sure, I can do that, you know, and then I would just be freaking out in my mind. Well, I like learning everything I could and then, yeah, eventually, it just becomes comfortable.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:25  Yeah, that's awesome. You know, I think that's the scariest thing for us to do is just to go out there put expose ourselves be uncomfortable and grow from actually taking action. Right. That's incredible. I love hearing that. Now, going back to the value side of things, right? So pricing, and valuing your service valuing your art, you know, whether it's brands, whether it's commercial service, how do you go about that? Because we see this a lot in the space where people are either undercutting their own price, because, you know, they don't, they either don't value their own product or their own self. Or sometimes they just even give it for free, right, with no strategy on how to monetize that. And for that reason, most creatives feel like, well, I can't make it in this industry, like what's going on? Like, you know, I don't know, this is not for me, etc, etc. So what are some of your take on, on value on building a value behind your product and services so that you can get paid for the value that you actually give?
John Weatherby  16:41  Yeah, well, okay, so going back to, like the experience and becoming better and better, the better that you get, the more you're going to increase your belief and how valuable you are. But something you have to remember, as well as is that, you know, you're creating value for for people, whether that's art on their walls, or photos for their business for marketing, you're creating value. And, yeah, I think you'd increase your value by becoming better, you know, through experience, but it's tough, because you're gonna look at other people in the industry and compare, and you're gonna think, oh, wow, they're way better than me, you know, I need to charge less than them. That's kind of how I looked at it. At first, I would look for people who were offering the same services as me, and see what they were charging and kind of like gauge myself, compared to them, and then charge accordingly, right? I don't think that's really the healthiest way, especially because your perception of your work is going to be different from other people's perception. I used to reach out to photographers in different fields and get advice, right. Like, when I first started doing commercial photography, I reached out to commercial photographers and asked about day rates, and you know, what to include in those, whether it was just the shooting, how many hours was like, include editing, if I was going to not include editing, how much was like charging for that how much was charging for licencing for different, you know, things and it gets really confusing really fast. But having guidance from somebody who has experienced and who is like working professionally will help a lot. At the end of the day, you can price your art or your work at whatever you want, whatever your you know, value think and I mean, people, people will pay you according to your own belief as well, like, you know, you can establish value through a lot of different ways you can demonstrate it right. You know, whether your services are in demand, who you've worked with, you know, your experience, the quality, that's subjective, but you know, everybody's gonna have a different perception of that. And honestly, I think that photographers have a higher perception of what quality is compared to the clients, right? Because I see a lot of bad work that's getting paid a lot of money for sometimes, you know, but I think that the value goes back to the self belief. What you believe your work is worth, is what you're gonna get and if you really truly believe and you can increase that that belief and that increase in your your value, you can warrant high prices for your art and your work. And people will gladly pay that. So there's no concrete you know, answer for that. There's licencing models, you know, there's like rates like standard rates and If you can tell people $400 for that parent behind you right now, and one person's gonna say, that's way too much and outside of my budget, and another person's gonna say, Great, I'll take five of them, you know, so it's just, there's no rhyme or reason. That
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:18  is awesome. And that is awesome. I mean, there's this couple of things that you say I was just like, busy typing here, you know, make sure I make note of this. But there's a couple of things that I really love what you say there that you can charge whatever you want for your art, I think a lot of a lot of people really benchmark themselves with other other, the benchmark in this in this space, and that kind of limit them to what is possible. And yeah, that's, that's just awesome. That's a really eye opener. And, you know, you say how, what you believe become your reality, how what you believe, and you're confident to put out there is basically what you can charge. And I really hope, you know, the audience really take note right here, because this is just incredible, man, that's awesome. And
John Weatherby  21:12  clarify something so are you'd made me think of something, I mean, you're you can increase your value in a lot of different ways, outside of the quality of your work, just like you can provide value in so many different ways, whether it's good customer experience, good, you know, customer service, maybe you're throwing in something extra that wasn't included in the quote, you know, maybe you know, you're sending a handwritten thank you note, after somebody buys a print, I mean, the more value you provide, the more you can charge, right. So like, I think it's creating a great experience for our client as well, whether that's art or photo shoot or anything, you can increase your value, and a lot of different ways. So sorry for that, because you can compare yourself to somebody else, but you might not be doing what somebody else is doing right, you could be providing a better service, you could, you know, be mixing your own personality and your own, like gifts and talents that this other person doesn't have into your services. And for that reason, you don't charge what other people charge, you know what I mean? Yes, look, don't
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:28  don't apologise, please, because these are golden nuggets right here. It's very, very important. You know, I, I always say to my students that what, who you are become what is your unique value proposition? And you really explained that very well. You know, and I think a lot of us as creators think that the value is always in the service and the photography, but what you say there is incredibly eye opening for many artists is that you can literally just by giving a better customer service than other artists, you can put your value a little bit higher, a little bit out there. So, man, I'm glad that you thought of that, because that was a great little advice right there. Now, I wanted to talk about the impostor syndrome a little bit. I know that, you know, we, as an artist, we're very perfectionist, and just like you say, you know, I had my own experience myself where I was, I thought I could never make money from my photography until I get every little pixel. Right? Yeah, and then and then you start looking at what people are selling and you're surprised how those artwork can sell how those services can sell. And it become an eye opener now what would you say to people that have that sort of doubts where and I don't know if I'm good enough to put my work out there and be able to charge for it?
John Weatherby  24:07  I would say that that it's um, that's a mindset thing. So for me, okay, so I did a deep dive into personal development when I first started working as a photographer. So some some books that come to mind are like thinking grow rich, you know, the, the Science of Getting Rich Wallace Wattles. You know, Tony Robbins, trying to think of some other off the top of my head Bob Proctor has been huge for me. I have every single book by Bob Proctor. I've done coaching through Bob Proctor and you know, if you go on YouTube and look up Bob Proctor just go down the rabbit hole of his videos and you're going to you're going to really develop your mind set, right. So, impostor syndrome, it's again, it's a lack of confidence. And I mean, it's, it's just, it's just building that confidence building that experience, and your, your belief and like, you know, the value you provide, and the quality. So, I saw something the other day, actually, that I really liked. And it had to do with imposter syndrome. Somebody posted a quote in their Instagram story. And it was like, whenever you're dealing with impostor syndrome, and like, your lack of belief of like, your value, just think somebody out there is doing something that's less quality than what you're doing and charging more. And they have no idea what they're doing. But they're, they're faking it, you know, they're failing their way through it successfully. So I don't think that was the exact quote, but yeah, basically, like, you kind of just have to fake it till you make it. So you really do make it and believe, right, like, going back to the waiting tables thing. I realised very quickly that when I was interacting with the table when I was a waiter, and I was nervous, that there was like, an uncomfortable feeling. And like, you know, the whole interaction was very awkward and uncomfortable. So I realised that I just had to just act comfortable, confident. And then it was reciprocated, like there was a comfortable feeling, right? So I really do believe it's just a matter of, you know, when those thoughts come up, you say, you know, cancel this thought, I choose not to believe this, I choose to believe that I am capable and valuable. And my work is amazing. And I know what I'm doing right. Like, you, you almost brainwash yourself through, you know, building the belief that, you know, you can do whatever you want that you eventually can, right.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  27:03  Yeah, that's awesome. I'm glad that you mentioned that. Not that's great. I'm glad that you mentioned that, because I experienced that myself, where self development is really the cornerstone of success that most of the time is not our work is not our gear is not, it's not even the quality of our work is just who we are, and how our self limiting belief and, you know, all that names that you mentioned there, I came across all of them. And I studied them, I went to Tony Robbins, Unleash the Power Within as well. So I totally can relate with that. So 100% I'm glad that you mentioned that and share with that. Now, one of the thing that I'd like to to get your perspective from your, you know, how important it is, actually, before I go there, I want to ask, you know, you, you, you teach as well, right, there's your you, you have courses, you teach other photographers. Now, how is that, you know, I think back when you first started, it's, it's a lot more difficult to find people who teach photography, especially, you know, that structure course, there's a lot less option there, it's kind of like you go to university or you know, something like that, or learning on your own. Now, you have taken a lot of mentor and you you not worried about investing in yourself and upskilling your education, whether it is self development, whether it's business, whether it's photography, as just you mentioned, how important it is to have a mentor for your success journey.
John Weatherby  28:51  Oh, I think is huge. Because a mentor can help you in so many different ways. You know, like not only can you learn from them, you know, their experiences, right? Their successes, their failures, you know, they can also hold you accountable, you know, they can inspire you they can motivate you so a mentor doesn't necessarily even have to be somebody that you work with one on one like I consider Bob Proctor a mentor to me even though I've never met him or you know attended like a seminar by him or anything I've just experienced his his teachings through audiobooks and you know, physical books and YouTube and stuff like that. So a mentor is huge. And I do believe you get back what you invest, especially with like courses or something because it increases your value and increases your belief in yourself. Right, which then warrants you to charge more because you're providing more value, more quality. So yeah, mentors huge and they can shave off, you know, a lot of time in your journey. Because you, you know, you're not necessarily figuring things out on your own. Right? Like you're, you're learning from their experiences, what's worked, what hasn't, you know? I mean, you can, you can experience something just by reading a book, you know, like, you don't have to experience some trials and trial and error yourself, you know, waste of time, you can just read somebody else's and learn from it. You know,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:34  that's awesome. Yeah, I totally agree with you. And that's a really good point that you have there. Now, if you were to pick one mentor, right, whether it's through a book through a master class, or even a one on one, is there a one mentor that really become the turning point of your career or become the linchpin of your career? Yeah,
John Weatherby  30:59  well, so going back to the waiting tables thing, I actually met a guy named Ryan Skinner, through a group at my school that I was going to so this guy, Ryan is the one who introduced me to think and grow rich. And that kind of started my whole, like, personal development journey. So you know, he told me to read power of positive thinking from Norman Vincent Peale, he told me to read the magic of thinking big, told me to read thinking grow rich. The Science of Getting Rich some other books as well. But yeah, I would say that he was like my first, you know, like, real mentor. And if I had to pick one that had the most impact on my life, I would say it's Bob Proctor, just because Bob Proctor got me to think in a different way, and realise that I could provide so much more value than I was providing, and multiply it through, you know, online courses, or basically multiply the value that I put out into the world through different ways and create multiple sources of income and do different things. And it really, Bob Proctor did have the most impact on my, my belief, like, and the person about personal development space, I think,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:26  yeah, that's amazing. I mean, Bob, Proctor is really good at breaking the paradigm that we have, right, the thinking, just challenging the way our our thinking and really reshaping that. So that's incredible. Now, you know, I absolutely, I totally can see, and this is really incredible. I'm glad that I have you here today, because it really shows that you have work, not only in your photography, part of it, but also in yourself as well as the business bar. And that's, that's really show in your success in this industry. So I just want to say, first of all, congratulation for for making that happen, you know, it's incredible. Going forward to that, right. It's really cool that we talk about the business side of things, I know that people are a lot of people wanting to pursue their passion in photography, and be able to turn that into something that do full time. I'm going to kind of go back to the creativity side and your adventure side. Right. You are, you spend a lot of time on your Sprinter van, and you have this really cool Sprinter van as well. I know I've seen it and you know, it's literally my one of my dream is to be it to have something like that. What, what makes you what got you into the fan living, what makes you want to just explore in your sprinter, explore different places and just live from it. I know that there are a lot of challenges that comes with the fan living so it's not always comfortable. So yeah, I'd love to hear what is your inspiration and why you love to do that. Yeah,
John Weatherby  34:16  so this is actually funny because this is actually going back to kind of like mentors again. So gentleman reached out to me through Instagram actually, probably in like 2017 2018 His name was Josh the Burj. So he reached out and said he was doing VMI full time, and he's an entrepreneur. So this guy has a very interesting background, built a big real estate development company in Miami, a property management company and then sold it and you know, he had Maserati at the condo, he got everything, but he wasn't happy. So he sold all this things built a van And then started travelling the world. And you know, had a different philosophy of like his, his thing is The Boondock. Or you can look them up on Instagram. And his tagline is collect memories, not things. So he reached out to me and said he was passing through Tampa. And we met up, and he was a photography hobbyist. So we met up, and he talked about how he wanted our photography. So he offered to, you know, have me come out and travel with him, and teach him photography. So I did that a couple times. And when I travelled with him and his van, like, I realised the freedom that that offered, and you know, the ability to like, go somewhere, spend a week somewhere in one location, instead of the way that I was doing things, I would fly somewhere and then have one day at this location that I have to move to the next location. And like, if I didn't get the conditions that I wanted, you know, it was like tough luck, I gotta maybe come back another trip or something, right. So he introduced me to the van life and realised like, all the benefits of, you know, the travelling in the van and being able to go where you want on a whim, based off the weather, the conditions, the seasons, and all these things, right. So it was an eye opener for me. And it's, it started that, that, you know, goal in the back of my mind to like buy, build a van and travel on one. So he actually started a company building bands. And when I bought my sprinter band, I had his company build it out down in South Florida. So yeah, that's what got me into it. It's just all the, you know, the flexibility and the freedom for photography and like, going to different places that I wanted to, instead of having to, you know, buy plane tickets all the time and rent cars and all this stuff. So, but it comes to, you know, its perks and its cons for sure. challengers, like you said,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  37:08  yeah, that's, that's cool, I might need his his contact when I'm ready to build one. It's interesting that you mentioned that, you know, the freedom is absolutely beautiful living in a car and just be able to stay wherever you want to. And you say that it does come with, you know, both the products as well as the challenges. What are some of the biggest challenges that you come across living in a van?
John Weatherby  37:35  Yeah, so Well, first off, you need to find a place to sleep every night. There's an app called I Overlander that you can use to find different campsites people are blowed, you know different places in different cities, it's like a it's like penned on a map, basically, you can see where to find a place to sleep, where to find showers, you know, where to find fresh water to refill your tanks and all that stuff. So those are the challenges. You know, basically, finding some places to sleep shower or finding water, right. You know, sometimes when you're in a remote area, there's not very many restaurants, grocery stores, and all that stuff, too. But another challenge that I faced is just having a routine, and a consistent workspace as well. So, you know, finding coffee shop and a different place, all the time to work at finding Wi Fi. That's challenging, also, just not having a routine, like, I, I like to go back and forth and like, you know, experience kind of this complete free freedom to where I can go do whatever I want, and I have routine, but I also like to you know, rent a place like an apartment to settle down for a little bit and get some work done and do have a consistent routine, you know, a consistent place to go, you know, to the gym and go to work and have a shower and all this stuff to like, yeah, it's van life is it's not for everybody. It's, it's, you know, it is definitely challenging. And I salute anybody that can actually do it full time. I did it full time. Probably for like a year. But this is probably my least productive.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:33  I betcha it's the funnest year you had the Yeah, no, it's uh, yeah.
John Weatherby  39:40  You're gonna have a lot of places and experience a lot of things. I meet a lot of people you know, that's one of the pros. Yeah, and
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:48  I remember when I used to, I mean, I was like living in like a just a pathfinder, just you know, like put a bed on the back of it sort of thing, just like a small kid behind it, but our I remember I started to appreciate, you know fast food a lot more when you're in a band life because and you go to the all these remote places because yeah, it's just like reminds you of the CDN and all that. And yeah, that's awesome. So going back to your photography, you know, you captured man, like so many incredible photos from so many different places. What are some of your most memorable shot? From your journey so far?
John Weatherby  40:34  Um, yeah. So, I want to say Iceland. So, I mean, you're well aware that Iceland is like my second home. I've been there 17 times currently. And I teach workshops there. So I've had a lot of like, very, like, magical moments in Iceland, where, you know, I've like just had my mind completely blown, you know. So those are the first that come to mind. Lots of lots of spots around the US as well. But, you know, my first instinct is to say Iceland, you know, I've had some crazy auroras, I've had some very rare conditions, as well there.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  41:17  Yeah, man, Iceland is such a beautiful place. I've never been myself, but it is on my bucket list. And it's just incredible. You know, I love seeing your aura photos, and all of this incredible shot from Iceland. It's just absolutely stunning.
John Weatherby  41:34  They're, you know, insane. I've gotten to see two eruptions there, and be there for the eruption. And, you know, the progression of the volcanoes changing as well. And, you know, they they morph into different landscapes and composition opportunities throughout their lifecycle. It's really cool. Yeah,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  41:59  the, the volcano eruption is absolutely stunning. I mean, it's, it's insane. I love I love seeing your shots of it. And it's just, it's just breathtaking. You know, it's out of this world, man, it's been really great chat, I love you know, chatting to you about your photography or adventure, as well as the business side of things, you know, how people, what sort of thing that people need to do to if they want to pursue this for for a full time. Now, one thing that I would like to know from your end is that what are some of the most memorable moments from this journey as a photographer, and if you ever, like, if you ever, like thought to, you know, if you ever thought that there could have been another life for you, not being a photographer? Has that ever come through your mind? Yeah.
John Weatherby  42:56  So I mean, like, you know, just the journey, starting from taking photos of sushi with my phone to, you know, taking landscape shots and teaching photography and working with some amazing clients that like I can only dream of, you know, like, that's, that was never the plan. But it worked out. Amazingly, right. I did have a passion for music when I was younger, I've always been very entrepreneurial. Like, I have a real big passion now for just entrepreneurialism, like, just you know, like, solving problems, creating value, you know, creating freedom. Like, that's the biggest thing that I have, from my photography businesses is freedom. Like, I can just live my life on my terms like that is just priceless. You know, regardless of how much you're making, or you know, your successes or anything like that, if you can live life on your terms, and do what you want, when you want. That is success, in my opinion. So I like this, that we got to talk about the business because when I'm usually teaching photography and teaching, you know, through a conference or something, I'm always talking about the art part, right, like creating and, like technical stuff, but like the business is, is something that I'm super passionate about. I'm thinking of maybe actually starting to do Coaching for Business or coaching into personal development. Personal Development is also something I'm super passionate about to write, but they're tied together, you know, like, like, the personal development will lead to your success in business. I believe it's instrumental So yeah, if I could see myself in another life I would be teaching you People How to create business and freedom in their life probably,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:04  yeah, that's incredible. I, I totally can see that how it's very difficult to succeed in business if you don't develop yourself as a person. And, you know, it goes back to what you said earlier, if you don't, if you can't build confidence for yourself and be able to value who you are, then you can't put the value out there big because people won't believe you. Right. And business is a lot about trust. So I love hearing that, you know, personal development is, I think, one of the most important thing to work on in our life. Well, Joy has been a really good conversation and really enjoy chatting with you about the entrepreneurial side of things as well. And I didn't know that you have that much passion for the entre. You know, being an entrepreneur. I mean, I know that you have the the pro panel, sort of plugin for, for Photoshop, to do luminosity masking, which is fantastic man, like, you know, it's it's just great. Now, do you want to talk a little bit about how do you get into to that, like, what makes you inspired, what inspires you to build this plugin to do to be able to edit faster and easier in Photoshop through luminosity masking? Yeah, so
John Weatherby  46:32  that that was actually a byproduct of the courses. So when I first was introduced to Luminosity masks and plugins, probably like 2017 2018, I started using a plugin called riot Pro. So I started creating courses and 2020 Actually, during in the shutdown, lock downs, and everything, all of a sudden, had all this free time, my partner in the courses had free time as well, he had no more workbooks, all this stuff was cancelled. So we created courses, I was teaching people in my workshops, and in the courses how to use, you know, Riot Pro. And I realised, like, you know, there's no reason that I should be promoting somebody else's product and my product. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that, obviously. And even better if you can get a kickback and, you know, get a commission or something that's a win win, obviously, but I realised that I could create a plug in myself, a better version of it, in fact, and sell that along with my courses. So I created my plugin based off my experience with Riot Pro, but also my experience with other plugins. And basically, I wanted to correct what I thought was flawed with these other plugins, and what was flawed based off of other people's feedback on these other plugins, I wanted to create a better version. Myself. So that's, that's what sparked the, you know, the idea. And then, yeah, I mean, it was just a matter of working with a developer or hiring him, and then we're working with him for about six months, it took to, you know, design everything and create all the functions and code it and everything like that, right. So, and that's been a trial and error process ever since. But the plugin, wound up being like, a huge hit for me, you know, like, that actually wound up doing a lot better than the courses and workshops and stuff like that, too. So you never know, like, how one idea can lead to another and, you know, like, create a ripple effect, you know?
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:04  Yeah, that's incredible. I really enjoy the plugin. It's really I love the interface I love you know, what are the different functions that the presets function that you've put in there? I myself never, never do when I first got into luminosity masking, you know, somebody told me it's like, oh, yeah, you gotta do luminosity mask and I was like, looking at that and just like, Whoa, I definitely know.
John Weatherby  49:31  And then yeah, on luminosity masks this week, because it's such a confusing topic you know, it's it's a it's really challenging but once you get a grasp on it and you practice just like Photoshop is super intimidating, you know to which is another reason why we developed the plugin is because, you know, to help people to use it easy to use Photoshop easier, but once you understand the luminosity masks and you start to learn and implement them. It's like a game changer, you know?
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  50:05  100%. I mean, I guess like, it's just the steps, right? There's so many steps to get there. And your plugin kind of just cut all of that into just like one or two clicks. So that's the big thing. And behind that, I feel like you know, so that's incredible. Really love. Thanks for sharing that, John. Thanks for building that. You know that that luminosity masking, it's, it's a game changer. Now, we're coming to the end of the podcast here. And one thing that I always ask my guests is, if there is one advice that you would give, either to your younger self or audience out there, what would that what would that advice be,
John Weatherby  50:46  if there was one advice, I would advise people to figure out what they want in life, and what they're passionate about. And then focus only on that, and building a life around your passion that is working towards what you want. Because I think a lot of people settle and you know, work a job they hate, or don't really have clearly defined goals. And then as a result, they kind of just drift and wander, and they don't really have a purpose in life. So I think, if you can find your passion and create businesses around that solve problems for people related to your passion, and have some type of purpose, some type of goal and vision of how you want to live, I think that you're gonna just continue to have success and be happy and fulfilled.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  51:55  Amen to that. That is a great advice. I mean, one of the biggest advice, which was similar to what you said there that I got from my old boss was that he said, think about what sort of lifestyle you want and design what you do around that. And you basically summarise that very well. And that was just what a great advice, John, that is one thing that I feel like most people are missing in this life day, they start with the money, right? They needed the money, and then they looking for more money. But what they didn't realise is that money doesn't solve all the problem. You know, so So, yeah, amazing. That is great. Well, John, thank you very much for being in it's been a really good, it's been a pleasure having you here, having all of this advice for photographers, as well as for those photographers who want to become photo printer? And how will they be able to reach out to you how, what is the best way for them to find you?
John Weatherby  53:04  Yeah, so Instagram, I spend way too much time on there. My Instagram is where is whether it be so you can find me on Instagram. My website is John, whether it be.com. And that has links to courses, workshops, prints, pro panel, everything. So yeah, between those two, you can get in touch and you can find out anything you need. Fantastic.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  53:32  Well, I'll make sure that I put that on the description below. So yeah, don't worry, just go to checkout on the description below if you do, if you want to get in touch with him. John, thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much for being generous, not only with your time but also with your knowledge and sharing the knowledge that you have accumulated over this past years. Right? Some of these things are the stuff that many Creatives or artists haven't even think about, you know, when they want to pursue their passion for the so thank you. Thank you very much for for sharing that and opening
John Weatherby  54:13  people's eyes. No problem. It's my pleasure. Well
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  54:17  we can do is there's a lot of golden nuggets there. Hopefully, you're taking a lot of notes and make sure to check out John's profile on Instagram as well as you know, check out his courses check out this pro panel plugin because they are incredible. I've used them myself, I really enjoy them. But with that being said, you know, I love what John shared on that last advice because that really go hand in hand with this. The theme of the podcast which is given people hope, purpose and happiness through photography. Well, with that being said, hopefully you enjoyed this episode, and I'll catch you guys next week.
 

Ep 58 - How Barry Sutton Sold Out One Of A Kind AI & Photography NFT Collection

Hey Wicked Hunters,
I'm excited to be able to introduce Barry Sutton, an incredible artist who has pushed the boundaries of AI and photography. 
Barry Sutton is an American artist and educator using photography and AI to pose questions about our notions of beauty and the nature of truth. His photography work over the past 30 years is largely focused on youth culture. Sutton has quickly become a leading voice in the field of synthetic photography. His figurative work uses AI to interpret photographic concepts, developing a new aesthetic language.
His work has been published in French Vogue, New York Times T-Magazine and others. His retrospective, “96° in the shade” was launched as NFTs in 2021. The collection of 100 images sold out on release. His acclaimed synthetic photography project Traces of Truth consisting 500 works generated using AI, sold out in 60 seconds.
Sutton is the Chair of the MPS Fashion Photography graduate program at the School of Visual Arts in New York City, working with young creatives to explore the concepts that underpin their photographic practice in the context of fashion.
You can find more of Barry Sutton's work on:
https://www.barrysutton.com/
https://twitter.com/barrylsutton 
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Transcription
Barry Sutton  0:00  Yeah, I understand that a lot of photographers are, are afraid of what AI might do to their career or TV or to the genre of photography. And I think some of those fears are real
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:11  Hey Wicked Hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artists journey and our photography, giving them purpose and happiness. And today we have someone who's very special. And I know that topic around AI has been a lot of Converse, there has been a lot of conversation around AI and Barry had managed to create something that's truly unique with his NFT projects, as well as some of his photographs they have taken, you know, throughout the years. So very controversial, very fun, but also very educational. For those of you who want to learn a little bit more about it. Barry, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you very much for sparing your time. And, you know, to join this and share your story and inspire the listeners out there.
Barry Sutton  1:12  Thanks for having me here.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:16  Yeah, so you know, it's been, I followed you, I saw your project and what you've done from a friend, and it's very inspiring to see how you have put together, you know, what you have put together and we'll go, we'll go into that a little bit later. I know you had massive success, you know, build a big community through this project as well. But before we get that, I'd like to know, how did you get started, you know, you were showing me your very first camera earlier, right? What makes you fall in love with photography and want to do more of it?
Barry Sutton  1:57  Well, that's a thanks for asking, it's a great place to start. You know, I was, I was studying, I was studying music, actually in college. And after the first semester, I I didn't know where that was going to take me. And after that first summer, my roommate was an amazing graphic designer. And I had always, I was always drawn and painted as a kid. And even from I think my mom saved portraits that I made when I was like two years old. And I had a real sense of like, capturing the world and I was a little kid. And and that year, I sort of changed my focus from, from music to the visual arts. And the next year, I packed up my car in the middle of the night and drove back to Los Angeles, and from school and decided I wanted to enrol in art school. And I studied graphic design for a couple of years and, and first picked up a Polaroid camera, which was just a revelation for me, because I was I was just the magic of this sort of instant gratification or making an exact replication of what you saw so quickly. Just really, it just really took off. And really, from that moment on, I think I was destined to, to pursue a path as sharper, rather than a graphic designer. And that took a few years to kind of like make its way full time into my, into my consciousness. But yeah, eventually ended up with a camera that was really never looked back.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:41  That's incredible. And I know you, you know, you you spent the last three decades photography, youth culture, musicians celebrate these, celebrate these passion and all this stuff and what, you know what, what drawn you to that part of the geography because you know, there are we know, there's a lot of different photography photography in this world. And, you know, I myself, I love into the adventure astrophotography going out to, you know, in the middle of the night to the place that no one goes to. And so I'm interested in what interests you from from this path of the photography.
Barry Sutton  4:22  Well, you know, when, when I first got started with the camera I was very influenced by some of the partners who I was studying, like Edward Weston, and he made these beautiful, still like photographs that were beyond what the subjects were, if that makes sense, like his famous photograph of the pepper. It really looks it's so sculptural. It's such a local print. It goes beyond the picture. You wouldn't look at it and say, Oh, that's a picture of a pepper. It's almost like Good, it's almost like a spiritual experience to look at that photograph. And that was really interesting to me. But to get to that sort of level of technical skill, and understanding, like, you just really have to go out and take pictures. And so I think like most photographers, when I started out, I've just put a camera around my neck and walk in and taking pictures of what I saw, and, you know, elements of architecture and design and things like that, that really caught my eye and we're like, we're in this conversation together. But you know, the cool thing about photography is that it can be a passport to whatever you're really interested in, in the real world. And, and so, I was really interesting into seeing live concerts. And so you know, la being, you know, such a great city, we're for live music, on a, I would throw my camera around my shoulder, and just show up and, you know, sponsored I wanted to go to, and I would try to like, figure out how to weasel myself back the engine, people would see me with the camera, maybe like, okay, you can go in here. And, and so I really started photographing bands, when I when I first started and that's really what got me gotten started.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:20  Wow, that's, that's awesome, man. Yeah, that's, that's always interesting. Interesting to hear where the interest come from now. You know, um, have you ever explore other genres of photography? And, um, you know, into travel landscape, very common ones? Or even, you know, more on the more like, macro side of things? Or have this always been the type of photography that you just find fulfilment in and never really interested on other? And trying other genre or one?
Barry Sutton  6:57  Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, for young photographers, I think it's really, really important to explore, and to experiment, and to really take the camera or whatever, you know, wherever you're inclined to go. And, and I think it's also important to try a lot of different things. I mean, I think as a photographer, you know, this sounds really rudimentary, but I mean, the first question of photographer has to answer is, what am I going to take a picture of, because it's such a big world, you know, we go outside and, and are we going to take pictures of like, insects on a leaf are we going to take pictures of, you know, the moon, and the stars are we going to take pictures of people on the streets, you know, there's just like, the whole world is out there. And it really just depends on what we're really drawn to. And so, you know, when I started photographing concerts, it really turned into a real obsession with photographing youth culture. And at that time, I was photographing a lot of people my own age. And as this, you know, the connection and understanding of youth culture, matured, as I got older, the subjects in my photographs remained the same. There's a very strange kind of, you know, as I get older, like, the subject matter is still the same, which I think is just a really interesting commentary on like, I don't know, my relationship with, you know, with ageing, and, you know, and, and, and the sort of, you know, you know, beautiful naivety of youth culture, and so that really became my focus, um, and it's been my focus for the past, it's hard to imagine 30 plus years, but at the same time, you know, I think, if you if you are a photographer, you photograph like, many, many things, you know, I take my camera on vacation with me, I'm always shooting landscapes and, you know, pictures you know, local things, people, objects, still rapes, all kinds of stuff. So, I mean, you know, I kind of I'm definitely one of those, like, very possessed photographers to just take the picture of everything. But, and that keeps me very, you know, interested in the world and I guess, you know, well rounded as an artist, but the focus of my work has largely built on youth culture.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:32  Yeah, no, 100% and thanks for sharing that. Now. It's, it's really interesting. I want to hear this, this mistake from you, you know, I'll ask your perspective to youth culture. Or shifted or has it ever been shifted, you know, throughout your lifetime because like you say, you looking at it from a different lens, right. You started off as you know, you have this kind of like friends Then all sudden steer like, way, you know, as you grow older is like the gap is getting bigger and you know, the things that people do kind of shifted as well with the culture and the technology. Right? So how has that journey been of youth culture, from your perspective, but also from the world perspective, in terms of technological advance culture shift and all that stuff?
Barry Sutton  10:31  Yeah, well, what a great question, I think, you know, when I was when I was first taking pictures, and, and unbeknownst to me, my focus was on youth culture. Those were my peers. And these are the people I was hanging out with, and the bands that I was doing, they were all, like, my age, or a couple years older. And so I didn't really think about it. In that way, I just was photographing my world. And, you know, the truth is, I think, as I've gotten older, that world hasn't changed so much. I mean, it hasn't, it has, its, you know, this, the this pursuit of joy, or rapture, and this sort of feeling that, like, we'll never get old, we'll never, you know, we can do anything, anything is possible. This kind of naivety of like, I don't know that I can fail. Like, I just don't, if you don't know, that you can build, really, you have an idea that you can do anything. And I think it's this spirit of youth culture, that's so interesting, to me, it's so exciting. Again, you know, I didn't think about it so much when I was photographing my peers. But as I've gotten older, it really, there's some perspective that you get that that's really, you really see the beauty and and you just see the beauty of being young and having sort of, like, you know, the whole your whole life experience in front of you is, you know, it's really a unique perspective to have when you're that age. And so for me, you know, there's a lot of like, excitement and action are love and angst and other emotions that, you know, we have, and where that is that, for me, it's just so exciting to photograph and to capture. And, you know, you see that a lot of in 96 degrees in the shade. Which was really interesting. Because when people looked at that collection of photography, one of the overwhelming reactions to that was that it was very nostalgic. And so I can speak a little bit more about that, but, but I don't want to go on and on. But so I'll just kind of leave it there. But yeah, it was, I think it was, yeah, this is just something that my perspective has shifted. But I think that's only given me more sort of, of a broad view to, to, to gain an understanding of like, what that's about, and it just, you know, helps me every day in my, you know, in my practice on, and now and sort of extension of that into AI.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:37  Yeah, have that perspective, you know, as you as you kind of age and go through more stages of life, you, you start seeing, like you say, right, if firstly was your world, and then you start kind of seeing it from a third person perspective, have that really have that helped you to captured or interpret the messages or the culture better in any ways? Or, you know, if it has, like, how has it helped you to do that?
Barry Sutton  14:11  That's a That's a tough one, I think. You know, as artists we're dealing with, we're creating things that are two dimensional, you know, they're really recreating, you know, flat art. And so, in a way, you know, what we're really constrained with, as artists is what's in the frame now. So I think there's a, I think there's a perspective about the subject matter that like allows me as a photographer as an artist to connect with the subject with more love and empathy. But I think, you know, as an artist, the a lot of that lot Have that learning relates to actually, like, out of fit, how to tell the story and how to fit what you eat, and what you want to say, within the confines of this of these borders. Right? So, you know, I suppose if I was a writer, I might be even more introspective, and, you know, having this sort of meditative experience of writing. But as a photographer, yeah, it's just, it's, it's, it's really given me, it's really giving me the experience to figure out how to fit, you know, the story inside the borders of France.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:41  Yeah, yeah, that's, that's such an interesting take, you know, you know, sometimes this thought just come to my head, very interested to hear this sort of perspective. Yeah. And so you release, I think it was 100 collections of photos in the 90 on your first project, right, and it was called the 96 degree in the shade. And then now you have a follow up from there called the traces of truth, which is, I believe it was 500 works. And you have integrated AI into photography and have used the NFT, or the blockchain platform to as the medium to be able to sell your artwork and your collection and your perspective to the world. Now, before we get into all that, I'd like to hear a little bit. What. So you have been in photography for a while, you know, working as a photographer, now, what draw you into the web three, or the NFT space as a photographer?
Barry Sutton  16:54  Well, I was, you know, I'm very much a technophile may well, new technology, I'm like the first one in line to get the latest iPhone when it comes out. You know, I've always like, really looked at technology as just something that could help me do what I'm doing better and more efficiently. And I'm excited to like the I'm always on the bleeding edge of what's coming next. So when, when I heard about this app called clubhouse, I was, and this was back in the spring of 2021. I was really upset that I didn't get an invitation. And my girlfriend at the time, who's not my wife, but she, she got an invitation. And I was like, you know, maybe I can use her phone until I can get on clubhouse and, you know, make a profile and everything. And eventually, I mean, within a few weeks, somebody who I didn't even know invited me into clubhouse, you know, jumped on. And the first like, reason I saw were NF T's. I was like, What is. And so I just listened, and every day on my way to the office, I I put my headphones on and listen to clubhouse, and listen to these, you know, people talking about NF T's and just started investigating it. And that's how I sort of found out about what web three was about and, you know, desperately wanted to be a part of, but I wasn't seeing really any photography. So that was, so there was a learning process going on, while I was trying to figure out whether there was a place there for me.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:34  And so that was so finding your broke club, cause I think, you know, it was very nostalgic. It's, it's all, it's where it all started for many of us in the web three and the NFT space. Now, when you listen to that, and then you kind of, you know, hear about it, how, what's your perspective of the web three, and how you feel you can fit in or make this technology help you or work with to be able to spread your story, you know, out there in this world?
Barry Sutton  19:10  Well, you know, the nice thing about clubhouse is that the My first goal was actually to like get on stage and talk. It was it was a moment where there were like just a few people. Just a few people talking about art in the NFT space. And it was really hard to get on stage and but you know, even if I got unsaved I didn't really know what I was talking about. So so, you know, like funnelling people in desperately like trying to be a part of the conversation. But I also then started to jump on open CDA, we'll look at what kind of NF T's were being sold. And it was a lot of like, it was a lot of moving picture. It was a lot of 3d automation stuff and it was like I don't know how to do this and so but really my you know, Oh, this isn't really my genre, I could participate. And, um, I somehow found my way onto a podcast with this guy named GMO. And, and, and oh, sorry, no, no, it was a podcast with Justin ever. Sano. And Justin, as you probably know, is, you know, a very well known photographer and web three space, a young guy, really beautiful young guy and just like, has a lot of heart and and did this big project on twin flames. And it was just, you know, years long project that photographing twins on the world. And that was really interested in that project hadn't really taken off. I mean, it's sort of how but it was, didn't sort of hit the stratosphere, as it did, you know, within six months from that time, but Justin was talking about his journey in the NFT space and talked about this guy named GMO, and who was his first collector and a real supporter of his at the time, so I'm enjoying it, it took notes, I was like, okay, gimana gonna find this guy. Like, right, right down, Justin, I reside on the farm, and both on Twitter. And that's how it started, I reached out to them both on Twitter, I must have had, like, 20 followers at the time. So I didn't think that either of them were gonna get back to me. And, and Justin, who hadn't started quantum yet. got back to me, you said, hey, you know, how can I help? And I said, Hey, well, you know, I'm, I want to put out this series of photographs. And I would just love to get your input. And so I said, Yeah, send send me some. So I went back, set up a web page with like, 20 pictures were what became 96 degrees in the shade. I don't even think it was called that at that time. And we'll give it a title. And I sent him this, this web page with 20 pictures on he was like, Oh, wow, he's like, I want one. These are really cool. So that was the start for me. And I thought, okay, maybe I have something interesting here. And literally, like, maybe a couple hours later, or maybe the next day, our G minor went back in. And, and of course I like I projected that no, not projected I, I let him know that Justin was really interested in my work. And I probably would wait it up a little bit. And, and, and he got, he must have gone back to just them to ask him like, Who is this guy? What is this? What's his story? And the next day, I was out of town with my girlfriend. And I get this note on Twitter that from G man who was really interested in the work and though, so we got on the phone right at that time. And he said, you know, how many pieces are going to be in this collection? And I just remembered the twin flames as 100 pieces stuff. I said, my feet 100 pieces. And, and, and he said, Oh amazing. He said, I really love what you're doing. What would you think about me buying 20 of those. And well, at that time, I just like, you know, I said to my girlfriend, we gotta get home, I got worked. And that's how it started. So you know, I mean, this is this was a real moment of what they say that like, success equals preparedness plus opportunity. And so I was somewhat prepared because I had some information and I had some, some some pictures that were ready to kind of show somebody and the opportunity came. And you know, it's sort of, it's sort of just really really rocketed from there.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:00  Yeah, no, that's amazing. I love hearing that. And, you know, massive kudos for you for making that happen. So tell me, tell us a little bit about you know, what is the 9096 degree in the shade project? You know, what does it how did how did it come together as a collective and what it is about?
Barry Sutton  24:28  Well, I was I was living in Miami Beach at the time I had I left San Francisco, sort of as the.com era was imploding. Everybody was getting laid off. I was working as a tech in the tech industry as a marketing guy and and eventually led me to this to this photo studio called blue sky. And then I had an opportunity to go to Miami and and I took it in So I was in Miami. And you know, Miami is a very hot place. I mean, you, you know, I think I went for like, eight or nine months without putting on a pair of socks, it was just, I spent most of the day outside with my camera, most of the time on the beach, and they started meeting a lot of people, and we'd hang out the beach and start photographing people. And the more people I got to know and more time I spent, it started to really become. I didn't think of it as a project at the time, but it did become a project. And I slowly started to get some clients in the fashion industry. And so I started, rather than renting a studio for this shoot, I started bringing my clients to the beach, and we would just use the beach as the backdrop, the most beautiful light, really, you can stand by the water and have this incredible, like, light and incredible background that drains the subject so beautifully. And so that was so that's sort of sort of how it started. And so many of the people in the collection of 96 degrees in the shade, were models or other people that were on shooting with me. And other times, they were just people who I met at the beach and, you know, just said hey, do you mind if I take a photograph on you? So, so that's sort of how it started. The kind of the magical thing about that is those photographs were taken between 2003 2007 and, you know, we know NFS didn't start until you know, you will okay 20 2017 2018 But photography in the United States didn't start till 2021 So So those pictures were in Buxton. It was all shot on the home, most of his shot on a Pentax 6.7 camera, with Kodak by x max, one 100 400 Sometimes, sometimes Fuji colour film. And so I went through a process of scanning that work as I began to understand what's going on in the in, in a T space, but you know, this stuff set in boxes for you know, good 15 years before it came to life as as NF. T So, there's an interesting story there.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  27:40  Yeah, wow, that's crazy. It's crazy how things kind of make make around and you know, come come back to you, isn't it? So, so that was incredible, you know, to be able to see you or you're able to so you're able to put out to 100 of that photos out there in the blockchain and you know, got collected 20 of the right away by GE money which is a big collector in the space and then the next project after that is traces of truth. Right? If I if I Well, there's
Barry Sutton  28:18  a few there's there's a couple in between there's there's a couple that I won't talk about a whole lot but but just to just to end in the story about Greg and sister shared other optional we're planning to get back to it. Is that because the punks discord was with the twin flames Justin's twin flames discord was was just getting started. And there were a lot of a lot of his collectors were punks, and then board eight collectors. And they were really interested in photography at that time. And when g money came in, and Justin came in, and they were both talking about my project, the project essentially sold out immediately. And I mean, not on the day that it was released. But what happened was I had really put the cart before the horse here I had really like started getting the collection. Actually up on Open CV for all 100 pieces were even like getting around every touched. So every day stuff for three days. I was putting up as many pictures as I could. On the first day I put up 40 pictures and they all sold out like within like within moments of like them getting posted in price on open seat would get sold. And then I think what happened was people were basically they knew about the collection. They were excited about it. They were excited about clicking photography, it was really early days, and they were just refreshing the page. And when a new item was listed, boom, they would just buy it. I don't even think they were looking at it to see what was the subject matter. So So Little after the first day, or 40 pieces that I had put up sold next day, I think 30 pieces, and then the following day 30 pieces, and they all sold out immediately. And there's just one story about this collection that I really want to put in the podcast because because it's just it was so meaningful to me. And it's just so was just so fantastic. There was a collective, whose handle on Twitter has warned himself and from Germany, and he's quite a prominent guy in the space now. I didn't really know it at the time, but he was messaging me on Discord begging me to like tell him when the next pictures were going to be uploaded because he was trying to get as many pieces as he could from the collection. And there was this passage, and I say from discord where he said, Barry, listen, I take my laptop to this wedding is there I'm at a wedding this weekend. I have my laptop open, and I'm standing in the parking lot. And I'm getting eaten alive by mosquitoes. When are you going to post the next picture? And I really, really felt that because I didn't know he had already picked up like five bits and pieces at that time. So I Yeah, so it's I kind of told him like, Okay, I'm about to like, I'm about to put like another five or 10 pieces. So he literally stayed in this parking lot with his laptop. I imagine like the wedding was going on in the background. And he was lagging after us. You know, it's just it was so fantastic. It was the energy was amazing. And, and then Mike and I, his name was Mike and he and I had become really good friends over the over the years. And he's one of my biggest collectors long. But I wanted to get that story out there because it is so indicative of like, the excitement and passion that collectors are, you know, we're having for photography. I think that's still happening, but maybe in a slightly different moment.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:05  Yeah, so that's Yeah, I think that's, that's probably one of the best feeling, you know, any photographers or even artists, right could have this as somebody out there waiting for you and really want to collect their art for what it is right? Not because you know, not because this, this art is made for them. But it's something that's truly represent of who you are what you believe in to capture it. And then there are somebody who actually out there wanting it appreciating I think that as an artist, I don't I don't know if there is any better feeling than that, to be honest.
Barry Sutton  32:46  Yeah, no, it's really true. I mean, I've talked to people for many years, I was a soccer player when I was a kid, when there's no, I think there's still no feeling like scoring a goal playing soccer. That, to me is like the ultimate, but I think selling like having somebody appreciate you're working and spending their hard earned money to buy it and being excited about it and tweeting about it and telling other people about it just it really is something and I have to say that like for new photographers who are listening to this. It took me a good 40 years don't really sell photographs in this way. Like I did not maybe not for us. But it it was not something that I was not part of, I've not been part of the gallery system. I don't have a gallery in Chelsea, selling my work, wanting to put out the next things. I didn't have a cadre of collectors who were, you know, waiting for the gallery to, you know, put up a new collection of work I did on my work and a couple of a couple of prominent collectors like Calvin Klein and David Geffen, who had met over the years have collected my work but not to the extent that you know that I had a real big audience for it. So NF T's were really the first time I had an opportunity to grow my collector base and to have this experience and stunning work. So but to but to fast forward. And just to make a bridge to the to the AI work. I did put out a collection, a small collection on foundation called Paris in the summer. And it's a collection of eight photographs I made of Paris Hilton on the beach in Miami at that time. And and that was a mix of colour and black and white photographs. And there's a long story I could get into about if you get into another part but you can find us on foundation and that was actually a small collection that I put out after 96 degrees in the shade. Yeah, so there's a couple other small projects that he did, but essentially, you know, I became interested in AI and AI But you're also an interesting, interesting place to sort of segue into.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:05  Yeah, 100%? You know, so you had that asset photographers, you know, it's really interesting how you get interested in AI because, you know, in a lot of photography, you know, as a photographer, AI is being frowned upon, in most cases. So what inspire you to get into AI? You know, and, and to test it out, you know, to create this collections?
Barry Sutton  35:36  Well, I think, like, interest in AI really was related to what I've been referring to as the death of truth. And there's a very, there's a very interesting, very interesting, sort of extension of photography into into AI. And, and I think a lot of photographers Yeah, I understand that a lot of photographers are, are afraid of what AI might do to their career, or TV, or to the genre of photography, and I think some of those fears are real, or based on real, real things happening. And he, I think, a stock photography space there, you know, there may be, there probably will be a very big takeover of the production of AI work is pretty easy to represent some of the more sort of banal like, scenarios that sort of dominate, you know, the stock photography, world and landscape might be pretty easy to produce a picture of a young person eating ice cream might, you know, be something that you maybe want to move into a different area, if you're doing that kind of photography, some of the general sort of advertising things that, you know, advertisers are buying in stock photography, might switch over to AI, I think it's ographers will either have to become really, really great programmers. I don't mean computer programmers, but, you know, sort of prompters to keep that, you know, segments of the market. And I think photographers will have a pretty easy, easy way doing that, because, you know, if you have a photographic eye, or a really good sense of composition, and, and emotion, and, and this sort of thing, so, I'm not so sure that it's that all of those fears are totally founded, because, you know, technology's always influenced photography over the years don't, you know, if you go back into the history or a photography, you know, is photography sort of, at one point supplanted painting as the sort of the ownership of, of representing truth. And, you know, at one time painters were the ones who could paint the portrait or landscape and make it very realistic and be a representative representation of truth. And eventually photography took over, and not suggesting that AI is going to take over the domain of truth telling, you know, maybe quite the opposite but but I think with traces of truth, I wanted to talk about those things. And so So I think the idea for traces that came before sort of a visual representation of the twins but I had this idea that showing these two twins together, both both the relationship between like the similarities of their faces and the inherent differences and so it's like a good it just was a really potent kind of place to start in this conversational you know, what is truth? And yeah, and that just manifested in its in traces of truth is a very sort of photographic project. But you know, you can very easily see that the cameras around the the next of these claims are not real. And so there's kind of an immediate connection to the to the word visually but then I think people you know, very quickly look at and say whoa, what is
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:33  yeah wow, that's really interesting and how you incorporate the two into you know, visual art and how I suppose storytelling right and being able to pass on your, your vision or your message that you want to spread to the world and I really liked that. I really like how, you know how you say at the end of the day, it's just a modality, right? Whether you use is a pain where they use photography. It's the intention behind it that makes it powerful or important. So that is a love hearing that, you know, I find that very, very interesting. One thing that I'm interested on is so we have other modality apart from NFT. To sell our artwork, right, we have we're able to print you have, I see that you have a few prints their photo book. And now it's the digital collectibles era where we it is possible to sell a digital version of our art as a collection instead of as a stock photo. All right. So share with me a little bit from your perspective, how are these different, right and what makes you excited about the NFT space? Or having your art in the blockchain compared to having it printed or you know, in a book or even just sharing it on a social media?
Barry Sutton  41:04  While there's there's a few really, really interesting prizes and go down with this, because I think there's there's something so important about how photographers, now it was an opportunity to realise some financial gain from work that's presented in the digital space, you know, there was there, there were these years where, you know, as photographers, we were putting our pictures up on, webs on blog posts or websites. And there was always this fear of like, Well, somebody's stealing your work. So, you know, it's so easy to right click and save something, that we started putting watermarks on our pictures, we even started, like really defacing the work so that somebody wouldn't want it. It was just such a strange. It was such a strange action that was happening to him. And we didn't really know, like, how do we present our work in this world, you know, I know, you know, that we're, there's code written that doesn't allow you to right click and say, but can always screenshot those really no way of mine, we realised that there was no way of protecting your work necessarily. So, you know, along comes the blockchain and, and suddenly, you know, collectors are really interested in being like the owner of record of a piece of digital art. And I think that's, you know, such an amazing step in, you know, in, in photographers ability to, to really sell their work and to suddenly, like, think when the blockchain came around. I think I say we, so I'm kind of speaking for a big group, but But I should just really say, from my own perspective, I'm not so worried anymore about somebody right clicking and saving my piece. You know, what I do worry about is like, somebody scraping a local election up open sea, and like, making a you know, making a complete collection of like, work with my IP, and it happens, it happens on 96 in the shade, and not the basis of trickle it's happening with read. And write thank you to open see if you're listening for being diligent and getting those collections ticking down very quickly. So there is still kind of a, an issue there, you know, people stealing your IP, but now that we have an opportunity to look at it in a different way and to and really to, to have collectors buy you work and be the order of record on the blockchain, which is you know, immutable. And in maybe forever, I don't know, maybe in quantum computing comes around. But but this is a really interesting thing, I think, for photographers, and for me, like adding this work that, for example, sat in a box for 1518 years before it might add a new life on the blockchain really made me realise that like, even if I were to lose those negatives and lose those prints, that it's still exist and it who knows how long it's gonna exist on the blockchain, but I guess in another life, and it gives them another place to live. You know, in the digital world, so I'm super excited about that. I know there were a few different things that were built into that question. So yeah, so sorry, if you want to kind of repeat where or what that question was, I'm happy to take the other parts in there. But yeah, that's.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:05  And I think that is that is a really good answer. You know, I think when you mentioned, you know, right clicking, we're scared that people right clicking, saving it and sharing it somewhere else. Well as once we put it out there as a record of NFT, we no longer are afraid as much. And I think this is the first time in history where an art became more valuable when there are a lot more people using it right in the background. And a good example was when cat smart really says, you know, that photo as an open public licence where anyone could, you know, she just got tired of that photo being stolen all the times you just go, you know, what, this is open for public. And this is what, you know, I love what you say that because that is so very true. I have never in my photography life, you know, be any happier than people try to right click and save, because it actually increases the value of that particular, you know, art in that blockchain? So? Yeah, very, very interesting. How it has the web three or the NFT change your life? If it has? Or has it been just one of those things, one of those new technology like iPhone that, you know, just okay, well, it's just not another way of communicating, or has it as it given create a new impact and a new way? You go about pursuing storytelling and, you know, sharing your art to do?
Barry Sutton  46:52  Well, I think, I think it hasn't not answered this too quickly. I, I'll say from the, from the storytelling perspective, it hasn't, hasn't changed my ideas of storytelling, but I think you know, what difference did is that it opened my work to a whole new, like World of collectors. And, you know, that's just a miracle, I think of the space because, you know, there were a small number of people who knew about the work that I was doing. My primary, you know, my primary job, I mean, I, I actually have a job. I run the fashion photography, graduate department at School of Visual Arts in New York City. And, and, you know, this was still the main focus of my work life, I work with 15 to 20 students every year, on building an art practice, around the context, in the context of a fashion, and have a wonderful staff and a wonderful group of teachers who are, who all work in the industry. And we're all really focused on helping young photographers to advance their careers and to become better at the craft. So this, you know, the, this, my participation in the unity space, has really just given me an opportunity to get new collections to look at my work. And it has changed my life. I mean, you know, both financially, and, and sort of, from the standpoint of, you know, when you when you well, I'll back up a little bit, you know, when you put out a collection, either in a gallery or in a T space, it gives you time to, to reflect on sort of where you're going next. And you know, because he sort of like projects has like a beginning, middle and end sort of for me, and well this is opening up a whole new conversation. But once a collection is lodged, of course as an artist thinking about what to do next. The truth is there's a whole life to the work and to the sort of process that actually just starts when your work is launched on the blockchain so you know, I now have a discord I now have you know, collectors that you know, I'm building relationships with. Everybody wants to know what's kind of next. You know, in a very, you know, one of the one of the new experiences for me as a creator is that now there's a bunch of collectors who are also looking at the value of what they bought in they might be buying it because they love the art they might be buying it to flip and make a quick you Know, a quick buck, or they may be buying it as a long term investment, but there's this relationship that's happened, a whole new set of expectations. And so, so while that is going on, of course, as a creator and thinking about, you know, what to do next. And so this has led into, into, you know, sort of a renaissance, I think of, of, of creativity. And so, yeah, I just think that, but, yeah, the tension that's been put on photography, the speed at which this stuff is going out, is really, yeah, I think as a creator, it's, I never it's a time in my life as a creator, and it's never been so exciting or, and fruitful in terms of, like production, if you guys probably produce more work in the last few years, and I have, you know, in the previous like, 20
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  51:03  Yeah. Wow. You know, I love hearing that, you know, I think you're absolutely right into resolved Rennaissance I think this is the new era of art, you know, and it's, there's just so many possibilities that we can that this can both so very excited about this, you know, big congratulations on the work that you have done and the success that you have gone through, I think your words are absolutely incredible. And I love the concept behind them as well, you know, the purpose behind them, I see that, you know, not all projects in the blockchain have a purpose or a story behind it. And I see that when I go through, you know, the stories and your collection, I can see that, you know, coming through to so. Yeah, big congratulations. But now, what's next? If it's if it's possible to rebuild? If it's not, it's okay, as well, you know, but is there anything in the horizon? You just said that, you know, as soon as there is a project, finish it, you're you're this the next the next exciting things is thinking about the next bit, but is there any next project in the horizon at the moment?
Barry Sutton  52:18  Well, I think, I think I think before I get to what's next, which I don't know if there's, I don't know if there's going to be a, an acceptable answer to that. But but, you know, what I'm focused on right now, is this project rad. That was launched on June 26. And this is a collection of 600. Works of synthetic biology. Some people call it post photography, some just call it AI. It is, you know, essentially AI assisted images that, that largely come from training, training the AI on a dataset on my own photography. And it's actually the true sort of extension of 96 degrees on shape, because the first collection in the series starts out with a sort of a some this subculture of beachgoers and so there's a collection within rad there's there's five different sub collections, the beach, Easy Rider, but wheels, ravers and punks, and this is essentially exploration of youth culture, across a number of different sort of, you know, subsections. And that's, and that's been the focus of my, you know, my work really over I would say the past year. But, but that was just launched. So I'm, I'm pretty, you know, I'm pretty deeply entrenched in, you know, in, in showing that work, and in getting that out there, because it's very much an extension of my exploration of youth culture. But now we miss the new storytelling. Genre of AI.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  54:17  Yeah, no, that's, that's really exciting. You know, I love how you connect the two and then you know, you create you you experimented with a different way to approach it. I think that's, that's really cool. That's really interesting on how that is how you take that forward. Well, Barry, I really appreciate having you here. And you know, it's been a great conversation. I know you have a meeting to run to. So I want to make sure that we wrap it up before you you had to rush out. But before we go, I want to have one last question and this question I always ask every guest in my podcast, which is what would Be the one advice that you would either, you know, give yourself, your younger self give yourself today or other people, whether it's about photography, lifestyle, whatever it may be, have you got this this one advice that, you know, you live through by that you is that even the right way of saying that
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:20  you that you live by it right to into a to add to the throughout your life
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:26  and become your North Star?
Barry Sutton  55:31  I you know, I think I think what's happening here, I'm going to put this sort of in the context of this new NFT space, I think, you know, what's happening in the conversation for the NFT space and on Twitter are very focused on a transactional, the transactional nature of selling work. And, you know, I think I would implore young photographers not to be sort of sidetracked by these conversations in this transactional approach. LFTs I don't think are going away. Blockchain, I don't think it's going away. Certainly anytime soon. I don't think it's gonna go away in our lifetime. You have plenty of time. I think, you know, focus on your craft, I think there's a real, when we were talking about this earlier, before we started, it's really easy to misinterpret what's happening in on the transactional side of, of NF T's. And, you know, status, artists that you don't know, and they just showed up on the scene, and all of a sudden had sold out their collection. And, you know, they bought a Tesla, you know, or like, going on vacations. And thinking like, oh, yeah, man, I could, I want to do that, too, you know, and, yes, if your work is ready to show, by all means, go for it, you know, but I think there's a lot of really exciting things happening in the NFT space, and this big third community of artists that are coming together in a way that's supportive, when that's, well, that's helping us it's even help, it's helping me grow my, you know, understanding of my work and myself. And, you know, my advice is, take advantage of that, don't worry, whether you're at peace, or whether your pieces are selling as an angel, not just like, build your community, hanging out with artists, spend all day and all night with artists, you know, be a part of a community that will that will help you like focus on your craft more than anything. And, you know, If a time comes that, like, you're able to sell them work, and, you know, buy a new camera, or, you know, a best case scenario, make a living, and, you know, and all of that, that's wonderful, but like these things, generally take time. So give yourself time Don't you know, it doesn't have to happen overnight. So, yeah, I think that's, I think that's the best advice that I can give you.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  58:12  That is amazing. I love that advice. Very good. You know, I feel like a lot of this conversation around, you know, we started photography or in art in artists, in most cases, want to become an artist, because they love what they do, right? I don't know, if there is any artists that have started becoming an artist, because they feel like they can make a lot of money from it, I guess. It's always because they fell in love with it. It's not like, you know, an investment banking or something like that. But I feel like as we grow into this path of, you know, pursuing that flow, doing more of our being able to do more of what we'd love by having more money, sometimes we get distracted and even lost our purpose on why we started our, you know, photography or becoming an artist in the first place. So, I love what you said, there. I totally resonate with that, you know, we know how important money is, but if it means that you're gonna lose your passion, your love for your art, then is it really worth it? Right, so, thanks for the advice. I think that's a really, really good advice to have.
Barry Sutton  59:31  Yeah, definitely. You know, when I was a young artist, there was no like, sort of interconnected community like there is now on Twitter and social and around around art practice. So, you know, take advantage of that. Yep. Be a member of that community. Get better at your craft, talk about your craft night and day. You know, get people to look at your work and help you critique, critique other people's work where the language and get to know yourself Letter through that whole process, and you know, that will help you work. And if there's some financial gain at the end of, you know, at the end of that road, that's icing on the cake. But I think, like, sometimes as artists we, we think that we have the right to some kind of financial success. And, you know, the truth is, like, if you're a real artist, you're doing that so you can live, you know, you're doing that because you're possessed by this, you know, need to create, and I think, you know, I think young artists are really tapping into that energy and that buyer and, you know, that's, that's, that's the most rewarding part I can go of being an artist.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:00:50  100% Well, thanks for all Barry. You know, it's been really, really nice conversation, love hearing your journey, your story, you know, over past three decades, that got you to where you are today. You know that most people see it as an overnight success, probably, who have come across you recently.
Barry Sutton  1:01:11  But you know, this doesn't happen overnight.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:01:17  It's awesome. All right. So, you know, for those of you for the audience who want to connect with you find more about your work, what is the best way to connect with you? I know I'm gonna put it all in the in the notes anyway. But let us know what is the best way to connect and get to know you better?
Barry Sutton  1:01:33  Oh, sure. Thanks for asking them. Yeah, you can drink with me on Twitter. Barry Sutton is on my Twitter handle. If you get to Twitter, there's also a link to my Discord popular with a lot of great artists are in the discord. You can connect with and collectors popping in and out and done. Yeah, yeah, we could find it. And you know, I'm pretty responsive on Twitter right now. I don't have enough followers that, that I'm ignoring my DM. So, yeah, just jump in and, and be a part of the community? Ritual?
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:02:09  antastic? Yeah, look, I'm one of the things that I love about the web three, or the NFT space is that, you know, we could be a total stranger. And then you know, like, just like this, we sit on that podcast, get to know each other. Well, let us in the old days, it was a lot more difficult. You know, I find, even do collaborate, work with each other, you know, reach out each other is ask for advice, just like you said, you know, like, Twitter is just incredible, like people really responsive really respond. Doesn't matter how many followers they have, you know, it's been a lot. It's been a really refreshing place to be. So I really appreciate you, you know, we're checking your DM coming back to me after you know, in two days, in a few days, we're recording this podcast. Very excited to get your words. Your stories out there and your and as well as your work. Well, thanks a lot, Barry for being in this in this podcast. It's been a great conversation.
Barry Sutton  1:03:13  Thank you so much. Thank you so much for the opportunity to talk to you saga first about about to work. I really appreciate you reaching out and jump. Yeah, great conversation.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:03:24  antastic. Well, we can do is, thanks a lot for tuning in. And make sure that you check out what the project was that Barry has put together. It's absolutely incredible, bro, both from his photography as well as the AI part of it. And that's just goes to show how they both can work next to each other if we decide to do so. So I think there's a lot of excitement with the technology that's happening in this world with AI with the web three with the blockchain. And when we use it to our advantage, I think that's where we can get the most out of it. Well, thanks a lot for tuning in. Make sure you hit the subscribe button if you haven't already done so. Go to Twitter, follow Barry if you haven't done so and I'll see you guys next week.
 

Ep 57 - How John Knopf turned his stupid idea as 1.8 gpa students to become one of the most successful & respected photographer in Web3

Hey Wicked Hunters, It has been too long! I've been overwhelmed putting together both NFT Bali Artweek as well as Sloika World Photography Day event, and I been struggling to keep up. I'm very excited that we have gotten 8,000 submissions from the two exhibitions, have 7 satellite exhibitions from the 2 events and reached millions of people. I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed and become part of the event. Now I am back and I am excited to introduce John Knopf! 
With over 15 years of field experience, John Knopf has made his mark in the world of landscape photography through his vibrant, evocative imagery and commitment to conservation.
Embracing the challenge of capturing the raw beauty of nature, Knopf delivers powerful images that inspire appreciation and protection of our ecosystem. An Emmy-nominated, photographer, his work has been recognized by National Geographic, TIME, Red Bull, USA Today, and various prestigious exhibitions including Venice Biennale and Art Basel.
A trailblazer in the NFT space, he hosted the first and largest NFT Photography gallery at Art Basel & NFT NYC. Additionally, he owned two exclusive photography galleries in Las Vegas and Minneapolis.
Despite his accomplishments, Knopf remains driven, crafting limited editions of his artwork using premium materials while constantly exploring new ways to push his creative boundaries.
You can find more of John Knopf's work on:
https://www.jknopf.com/linktree
https://www.jknopf.com/ 
https://twitter.com/JohnKnopfPhotos/https://bio.site/inagrischau
https://www.instagram.com/johnknopfphotos 
 
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Transcription
John Knopf  0:00  If this guy can do this, and like there's only a handful of people doing this in the world, maybe I can do it. And it was like a stupid idea because like, like, just like, I'm just a kid from Miranda, Arizona, like I graduated with like 1.8 GPA. I barely graduated. My parents were you in and out of prison like, Mike, I was told by all my teachers, there's no way I was going to amount to anything, I was most likely going to end up homeless in a trailer park or just, you know, in prison Ed.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:37  Hey, Wicked Hunters. Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artists journey, and how they find purpose and happiness, true photography. And today we have someone who's been in the space not only in the photography, but as well as in the web three NFT space and he is well known, well respected. He's been at it for a long, long time. And he actually own two galleries as well, which is, you know, something that not many photographers nowadays have the opportunity to have. So, I'd like to welcome John knop How're you doing, John? Good. Good. Jim. Thank you so much for having me. I love all your pro equipment there. I've got like just a MAC studio speaker here.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:25  Yeah, no, it's, you know, I decided to invest on on on a microphone because it made me enjoy recording when when I hear back to it. So that's, that's the main reason.
John Knopf  1:36  I love them and to get set up.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:39  Fantastic. Yeah, look, go welcome. And, you know, it's good to connect with you. It's the thing that I love about web three, you know, you connect with people very easily, you vibe really quickly. And you just, you know, you you make connection, like like, there's no tomorrow, right?
John Knopf  1:54  Yeah, yeah, it's definitely it's an interesting space. It's definitely I've met so many, like new people within the, you know, like the web three community that I never would have met, if it wasn't for like crypto and NF T's and stuff like that. So yeah, it's been an eye opening experience to just like, meet people like all over the world.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:12  Ya know, 100%. And, you know, you have, you know, very interesting story, not only through your web three journey, but also in your photography journey. And, you know, one of the things that, you know, there's some crazy stories that I've heard about you, and it's so cool that I get to interview you in person, so that I could ask that question. But one of the things that I always like to start is, you know, the beginning, right, I think you've Well, according to your website, you know, you've been at this for about 15 years, I'm not sure if that's still pretty accurate. So, so do you actually change that every single year is like, Okay, now it's 16 years.
John Knopf  2:54  I do I reread I have like the bio rewritten like all the time, like this year, I recently use chat GPT. And like, just went to town for like, 12 hours, it was just like, simulating different voices and things like that, and trying to find different styles. And it just came up with this just like amazing bio, and I was like, done. I love what this is written like it yeah, I feel like changing it up. Because our journey, like constantly changes, I feel like we should always update our bio, our websites, things like that, just as like, it's it kind of like a journal Right? Like, it keeps track of like everything that I'm doing that way I can remember because we do a lot of shit.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:31  No, 100% 100% and I actually, you know, find find inspiration in that because I'm one of those person that's really lazy, too. I mean, we become photographers so that we don't, right, right,
John Knopf  3:42  right, that I got for chat. GPT
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:46  this year has been an incredible year, because I'll tell GPD it's like all of all of my caption now, you know, everything just inspired by Chad GPD and just change little words, you know, so that it's sound like mine. But yeah, that's incredible. But to go back 15 years ago, right, what was you know, what was that beginning? Like? Like, why did you fall in love with photography and decided to pursue it full time.
John Knopf  4:14  Now, it's funny. It's like, every podcast that I do, like, I feel like the narrative changes every time because I feel like I discover like different things. I like why I got into photography. Like, my most recent discovery was like, you know, I was working at a job. I think I hated what I was doing the idea of work like a nine to five and, you know, if I let go back, like the beginning of like, I started working when I was like, you know, 13 and every job that I've ever had, like, I didn't last more than a couple of months, man, I would always get fired. Like, I'm just gonna be honest, I'm terrible with customer service. That's why I became a photographer like an outdoor photographer. Like I don't deal with people. I take pictures of trees that don't move or talk to me. It's like, it's ideal for me and like, as I'm as I was growing up, I found you know, a lot of different jobs I've held so good. I've worked it Taco Bell, the melting pot. I've been fired from everywhere bad. But like that, I think like, when I was working at this car dealership, I was taking pictures of cars as like the internet salesman. And I was, I was just really good at taking photos of the cars, like I felt like, you know, it was just very, like calming. It was like, it was something about just like, you know, looking through a lens and just being able to focus on something else other than everything around me just like it would cancel out all the noise. And so, for a couple of months, I did this. And I finally just, I think it just some point, I was making great money at this car dealership, and I just decided, this isn't what I want to do. I you know, I can only go out like, once a week because of it, you know, when you're working, or you're working at like six days a week, 13 hour days, it's just like, I was never able to do anything. So I finally just like one day literally just walked in was like, I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. I'm going to be a photographer. Everyone's just laughing. They're like good luck with that row. But the like you would everybody else. And this is before Instagram before any of that. So yeah, I just kind of like set out on a journey of being homeless and broke. Because there was no way I knew that I was going to make money at this. I just figured look, and maybe maybe could pay the bills. But at the at least, at least I'm going to love what I do and enjoy my life travel, see the world may be get paid for it. But regardless, even if I'm sleeping on beaches, at least I get to enjoy the sunsets. And yeah, I have to admit, like it was even, even today, like, let's just say, you know, like I hadn't been any success in it at all, I'm still be pretty stoked, because I really do like continuously try to define success as not like how much money you make, or how many galleries you built, or you know, how much art it's, do you get up every single day, do what you love, no matter how many times you fail it, just keep doing it. And if you keep doing it, I know a lot of people would say that's insanity. But if you love what you're doing, then I'd say that's the biggest amount of success you could ever have. Because there are so many people that make so much money and sit behind a desk every single day, and absolutely hate what they do and hate their lives. So I wouldn't say that success. So I look at like any artists that is like, you know, trying to get into it. And it's like, you know, just just go for it and, like successful eventually come by just continuing to persevere that that is the that is the equation for success. Like, so I just felt like on a tangent about that.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:21  Yeah, man, I love that story. I mean, now I had a very similar story. You know, I was, I was an engineer, and I finally walk away, right? And it was the hardest decision in my life. But it's like you say he was just like, it was worth every, every, every minute, every second of the struggle, the good and the bad. And I just love what you say there and with, you know, so you were doing, you know, you got pre good lifestyle right working in the dealership, you know, you work your way towards that, that sort of lifestyle where you like you say you started pretty hard, and you get fired. And then you finally find this thing that it was kind of a nice cushion, where you decide to leave to leave for photography, right? And I mean, I can relate so much when people you know, laugh at you when you when they hear you but pursuing photography. I mean, when I first started my Instagram, they're like, why would people follow you? You know, like, you're not in bikinis. And I was like, Okay, I've seen their babies. But anyway, what, what I want to hear is that what makes you love photography so much until you want to do it over and over again and wake up to it every single day to it.
John Knopf  8:48  Good question. You know, it's been 15 years and I have to say like, I probably don't have like the drive the crazy amount of drive that I used to, you know, to get up and like catch a sunset or run out and catch the waterfalls, I definitely have like chilled out quite a bit like on my last few trips, I've noticed that it's more of just kind of like enjoying the moments and cat you know, as opposed to just constantly pushing myself to capture them. But I would say like, you know, what drove me to photography. I remember first discovering like Ansel Adams work. And I remember the first time seeing one of his black and white prints and literally getting like chills like throughout my body and was like I've never like felt that before by looking at art. And I wasn't into art I had no I mean obviously we're all into art, like we but I never really understood it. I had never studied it. I didn't understand the history. I didn't even understand what made our but there was something about this, that just like resonated and I didn't really explore that until like my you know, like mid 20s And it wasn't until I was dating a girl who her dad was a you know, a well known landscape photographer and like he apart was just blew my mind. And I was like, if this guy can do Do this and like, there's only a handful of people doing this in the world. Maybe I can do it. And it was like a stupid idea because like, like, just like, I'm just a kid from Miranda, Arizona, like I graduated with, like 1.8 GPA, I barely graduated. My parents were, you know, in and out of prison like, Mike, I was told by all my teachers, there's no way I was going to amount to anything, I was most likely going to end up homeless in a trailer park or just, you know, in prison. And I was okay, cool. And I think that because I knew that like, ultimately, as long as like, I continue to do what I love. I didn't really care what anybody told me he had a like growing up, that was kind of like what was instilled in me. So like, when I discovered photography, it really was a therapy to me, because it really did, like allow me to tune all the other noises out. And there was just something about travelling and you know, going to a landscape and the nature and just the silence, and just everything about it was, it really meant something to me at the time now, as I've gotten older, my life has become more balanced. And it's not nearly as chaotic as it used to be. And because of that, I think that I don't need the therapy as much anymore. And, like, if you look at my Instagram, or like, like litter, I don't start with, you know, landscape photographer, I started with Dream Chaser, because that's what I've always been, whether I'm a photographer, a filmmaker, you know, community maker, whatever I'm doing, I do it because I enjoy it. And that's the fun of it. So photography has always been fun. It's always there's a love for it, there's just something about it, that has always driven a passion within me, it's being told that I can't do it. It's, you know, being told that it's not possible. Being out there in though in the wilderness, and just really enjoying those serene moments. There's just something about all of these things combined. That just really made it for me. And I think I it's so hard to answer, like what photography did for me, but all I can say is like, when I saw Ansel Adams work, and I got those chills as a kid, I knew that that was something I knew I probably couldn't do, but really wanted to be able to do one day. And when I finally got into my 20s, I had the confidence to be able to just chase it.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:12  Yeah, that's incredible. And, you know, I, you say this, you know, over and over again, about as long as I can wake up happy. It's it's amount of success for you. Right. And I think that's, that's incredible. And one of the quote that got me following my, my passion is from Steve Jobs, you know, if today were the last day of my life, would I do what I'm about to do today? And that's exactly you know, what, what you say there. So, I love this, right. And most people take a long, long time, you know, in their journey, as a human being, to find this out that it's important to do what you love. It's so important to do what you're passionate about, and we can hear all of that passion from your story, man, you know, but how did you figure this out? So you know, so early in your life?
John Knopf  13:05  That's funny that you asked that because it's like, I changed photography to find happiness. And that ultimately led me to a depression, you know, so, like, when I got into photography, I never expected the glitz and glamour of like Vegas and getting a gallery and becoming like, quasi famous in Vegas and like walking on the strip, and people would know me, like, I never expected that. And so like when that happened, it was like, I'm a kid from a small town who was like playing this. Vegas is not a big city. But to me, it was just gigantic. I had never seen these tall buildings. I had never seen anything like this. And so like something about it, like sex, drugs, rock and roll party, and I'd never experienced anything like it. So I got sucked in. And what ultimately led me to opening a gallery in Minnesota moving to the middle of nowhere in the Midwest, finding sobriety finding myself finding, you know, Kundalini Yoga, Jujitsu, all these things that helped me find like found balance. And I think like, what ultimately led me to my happiness was finding depression in in Minnesota because of the fact that I was tied to this gallery that I had opened, I had investors involved, I was never able to leave this gallery, I couldn't shoot I was given a phase one from phase one and I couldn't even go out and use it because I'm stuck in this gallery, trying to run it and then like missing the sunsets. And I'm like, borderline like back like, almost to the point where I'm just like, I'm gonna get back on drugs like this is terrible, like what am I doing with my life and back where I'm at, and back in Vegas, I'm about to just move to Minnesota to try to make this gallery run because I'm not willing to accept failure because you know, pride ego all those things can't fail. And so I'm in in Vegas. I'm talking to a friend My friend Frankie and I go when I moved to Minnesota, you know, I have a paying gig there. At least I have you know, some money I'm getting a salary out of it from investors. I'm at least able to survive. I can bring my family out there and he looks at me goes, bro, there is no amount of money ever, ever that is worth unhappiness, no amount. And that hit me so hard. And I don't know why that any everyone's been told that but for some reason, in that moment, it hit. And I said, You're right. And as fuck Minnesota, I'm moving there. I'm not dealing with this, like, I'm moving back to Vegas, I'm gonna be with my family, why haven't been with for a while, like I haven't seen anybody. It's just it was really eye opening. And because of that, because of that moment, from then on out, I decided no matter what, no matter how much money no matter what situation, I was committed to No, and I don't know why it took that. But I was committed to never been in a situation where if I'm not happy or having fun, I'm just not going to do it. Because there's no place I was going to do that. I might as well go back to work in a job where I'm going to eventually get fired because I hate
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:45  that is a well quit answer. And, you know, I love how you know, we find inspiration from other people and you know, it opens our eyes. And it's one of the reason why I love this podcast is always learn, you know, from, from people journey, and I'm sure the listeners there can find inspiration on that as well. Now, one thing that I'm interested in, right, so you say you had a pre rough start to your journey to your life, and you find out this thing, you know, this definition of success, which is I think it's it's very important in life, most people don't don't know what their definition of success is, right? But you find this definition of success of being able to pursue your passion and do what you love the most. Now, how do you keep that positivity, you know, that that enthusiasm and you know, the will to keep going to be happy? When you know you're struggling? Like Like you say, right? You know, you when you struggling to, to balance with with work and business and photography, as well as you know, money sometimes can be difficult, right? Especially like, for example, many of the artists right now might be struggling with with this bear market who are because who became a full time NFT artist? How how do you balance that out and still find happiness, and can move ahead with that in mind.
John Knopf  17:15  I'll tell you, so it's up and down. I mean, I'm not every day is perfect, you know, but I have to admit that like I wake up very grateful for the the opportunity that I have to be able to do what I do. I didn't do this alone, you know, like everyone else has been a part of my journey, my collectors, my friends, everyone has been an advocate for, you know, a support system. And so I'm grateful for everything that I have. And because of that, that is kind of like why it would keep going, you know, it's been 15 years of the bear market, I didn't start really making money in, in photography until the last couple of years. And I didn't really make any real money until I started trading NF T's in crypto and, you know, selling apes and really establishing my trading portfolio and being able to survive off of that. What I would say is that like, no matter what I always say go in headfirst don't save anything for the swim, you know, back and there also is don't put all your eggs in one basket. And I know that's kind of contradictory. But at the same time, you have to kind of flip back and forth. And when you have that you have to find a balance. And I know that's also contradictory, because there really is no balance right? You have to go in full headfirst. So it's, it's kind of like how do you figure it out? Right? What I would say is that like when I discovered crypto when when the pandemic and I had to shut everything down gallery wise everything because there was no way I could survive keeping these places open. And I owed money. And there was just a very tight situation for me and my family. We were living in a really very small spot. You know, it was really bad. I mean, I was borrowing money from a friend to get my car out of the tow yard. I had to sell my camera, everything to be able to buy into crypto when I first found it. So I sold everything nailed, you know, like everything. So I could buy in, though, because when I found it and discovered it during the pandemic, I realised that this was kind of the idea that I had because when the pandemic hit, I knew the government wasn't gonna pull us out of this, there was nothing that we were going to be able to do. In this situation. If they cut us off from working, and they weren't going to give us money right away, especially in Nevada, we were the very last to get on the stimulus. So to pay rent, do anything, I had to figure out a way very quickly and I'm a survivor. This is like mice. This is my skill set. When I put in a tight corner I'm able to figure things out. And so I would recommend like any artists to try to develop these skill sets where it's like, don't don't become an artist because you think you're going to make money you're going to have a very harsh reality where there's very few overnight successes in life. It is going to be a pride swallowing siege of hell trying to get through this but if you love it, it won't matter because you'll just want to keep doing it. And so I would say that during that situation I discovered crypto and bought in about a theory and bought slot a bottle actually didn't even buy sister theorem and so meanwhile Exelon and all the all coins when they were really cheap. And then what I found NF T's one Read on clubhouse, I started buying photography, I was like one of the first collectors of photography, I was buying photography leftover. And I'm just probably like one of the first guys to spend two weeks on a photo. Back when nobody was collecting photography, this is like in 2020. And I was like I was all in on trying to push photography to the next level by buying other people's work, I had a thought I was able to do it. And I found that really balancing a trading portfolio and not really doing any photography. And I know that's like crazy to take some time for but at the same time, I'm trying to develop, you know, a way to sustain my photography. And if I can't make money in photography, find a trading portfolio, find a way to make money. And so this was my way to make money, I developed a trading portfolio, figured out how to trade identities, did all this crypto stuff, and then established a way so that I wouldn't have to work anymore so that I could just focus on my photography. And so I didn't even have to really worry about people collecting my work, I could just make art. And that was the whole idea. When I got into crypto, I just want to be able to make our assistants what everyone loves to do when they're an artist, they just want to be able to sustain and be able to make art. And so I was silly to any artists don't put all your eggs in one basket. But also don't save anything for the swing back. So maybe do multiple things, try to find multiple angles, try to find ways of income, maybe we'll be in photonic gaming. You know, I would never have been Emmy nominated if I hadn't started like chasing music photography. And like going after that, in one day working with Joshua Bell like that would have never happened. And I just tried something new. And I was like, No, I'm a landscape photographer. Strictly landscapes I'd sit and eat and out man, like I do burgers and french fries. And it was like that was it. And you can't do everything else. But try new things. Try everything because you never know what's going to stick and what's going to change your entire life. And from it was always the most off things they never expected. That changed my entire life. So I feel like, it's like, how do you stick with something you love? Well, you know, just do it because you love it. And eventually, the money will come and maybe it won't. But the whole point is, is you're doing what you love and change it up, try to find new things. That's the idea, right? Grow every day.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:11  100% You know, it reminds me of this could be one of my favourite quotes, you know, from Albert Einstein, right? The definition of insanity is expecting the same result, a different result when you do the same exact things that right? And I love what you're doing the you know, you because you you just went out and try something and you and keep going and like you say it right? Most people look at you and you say, you know, John was very lucky. And you know, he had an overnight success and, and he just Dolby here, right. And everyone else who's gonna listen to this, they it's been a 15 years journey at the very least. Now, going through that 15 years, right? You had a lot of things that going against you, like you say, you know, your parents are in no reason your teacher didn't believe in you, you practically don't have anyone believe in you. And you choose a profession that is very famous for being broke. Or hating being an art this is not, it's not it's like, you know what, I'm going to be an artist because I'm going to be reaching. See no one ever, right? So one thing that I'm interested in is like, what is the biggest? Like, what is the biggest thing that kept you going that kept you in this journey, during your most difficult time and help you build that confidence, build that self belief to get to where you are today?
John Knopf  23:49  You know, I would say it's like, it's weird. But I would say if you've survived a bunch of trauma, I would say it's kind of like having conviction within yourself. You know, like, we've all been kind of conditioned. And I believe in ourselves from our school systems from intellect. Our parents tell us to believe in ourselves in that stuff. I feel like we all have been kind of conditioned to just be like, a part of the system. And I don't know, I just I think what kind of gave me like the confidence of just believing in myself and chase him what I love was that I don't know, maybe it was like a cheap way out. It was like, You look if I fail at this, everybody fails at it. So look guys, like, it's like five people that have succeeded at this life. Like, you know, obviously it was gonna fail. So you know, fuck you. Like, I don't know what it was. But it's just like, I think it's just something again, about just like, you find a passion and that's only so hard for people in life because it's like it everyone's so afraid of failure. I feel like, you know, we're so afraid that what if I chase this, I'm going to fail. I've always been under the impression that if I do this, I'm going to be the best at it. Because I'm not going to stop until I knew. And I know that's I mean that's cocky. Maybe that's Like overconfidence, but in my opinion, like, I just have to tell myself that, like, I have to tell myself like, I have this superpower. And I have to chase this because if I don't, I'm going to feel like a failure no matter what, because I didn't do what I thought I could possibly do. And so I, I think like, I don't know, there's just something about. I think growing up in a situation where you were always poised to fail, no matter what, there's something about being told constantly that no matter what you're going to fail, that makes you want to succeed that much harder. And maybe that's you know, why I've slowed down so much and just kind of started to really enjoy the moments in life is because I don't really have anybody anymore telling me I can't do something. You know, when I when I got in NF t's on clubhouse, I was told, photography can never be an NFT we have to animate our art, we have to do it like people, we have to make digital art, he had just gotten the $80 million sale. Everyone in clubhouse was doubting us, there was like a few of us. That gave me their ambition to Chasey you know, it was like, it was like when I first got into photography, and I tried to open you know, like my work in the galleries and every gallery shot me down st photography doesn't sell its art, you know, you can only sell it for a few $100 There's just not really a way to make a living off of it. I I drove up and down Monterey, Carmel, all these galleries and everyone was just like, photography just doesn't sell out here like good luck, kid. And that's what gave me the drive to open up my own gallery. I was like, No, that's not no one's going to tell me that something can't be done. I'm not know. So I just can't accept Nope. So I opened my own gallery with the idea that I'm going to sell a photography. And when I found NF T's and I found a clubhouse and I realised that there was so many people doubting this situation, including all the photographers, like, found home, like this is my spot like this is obviously where I belong. Because I believe that this like when I found like, just to go off on a side note, when I found the blockchain, I believe this was 100%. Native to photography. I mean, photography is mostly now 99% digital and very few people using film. It is digitally native it was it was made of blockchain. And it was like so perfect and symbiotic. And so when people told me no, I was like, we'll find collectors and might take a few years. But it's going to happen. I didn't think it would happen like this. I didn't expect all this to blow up, you know, but it was like when I minted my work and put it up at the prices, I believed and just didn't really look at the market because there wasn't one. I just went for it man. And like, I think that's the idea of like, how you sustain something that you love is that just chase Chase objectives Chase, you know, overcome achievements overcome obstacles, and right now currently, I'm just enjoying not having any obstacles, join late.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  27:45  Well, you definitely deserve a man. I mean, you know, it's been 15 years coming, right? All that stuff. I like to call it the success success hacks, right, you've paid all that success tax, and you get to reap all the benefit now. So yeah, like, and I love how you, you take all of this, you know, criticism and put downs and it, you take it like an adventure, you know, I know that you love hiking as well. So, you know, it's like, when you going hiking to a viewpoint in or going up a mountain, there's always going to be challenges, but you take that all of that setback as a as a challenge instead of you know, as as a wall that that shuts you down. Right. And, you know, without, without you and a lot of the early adopters of photography in the web three space in the NFT space, you know, we won't have what we have today. But one thing that, you know, one, one thing that I'd like to ask you Is that okay, you know, so NFT web three right? A lot of people even nowadays are still sceptic about them it's you know, I it's a scam and all this stuff now. What gives you the confidence to jump into the web three and the NFT world make you believe that it is the next thing of the, you know, the next iteration for photography and digital art
John Knopf  29:13  weightless photo, like when I when I discovered crypto, you know, it's interesting because, like, I found you know, the decentralisation anarchy and all these different you know, like self sovereignty, and I was like, This is so like, this is what I believe in. And as I slowly you know, developed, like my education and the, you know, what I really understood about crypto, I realised, you know, there was so much more to crypto and the technology that could really like change the world, but when I found NF T's, I'm going to be honest, like I was like dude, I'm gonna sell some art and make some money. This is amazing. This is a cash grab. We're gonna make some money. This is great. And I was like, I got to somewhere immediately i joven Firstly, I'd minted immediately I didn't even hesitate like I just meant it. Because I was like, this is this is it like we're going to be able to find a new route you know, avenue for like, making money as I I explored the community hung out in clubhouse. spent like a couple of weeks, I started to realise that this was much bigger than us just selling our art and making money, that there was even much bigger than the community, the backbone of the technology for the blockchain to allow us to democratise art, to share it to privatise our legacies on the blockchain. There was so much this was exactly what all of us working for, you know, it's so hard to create an archival process for a photographer, it's so hard to do all these things to create collections to, to open galleries to deal with galleries. And if T is how I saw it was defeated the middleman. He got rid of that until they got rid of the curator, the gallerist, the collectors who had you know, markup and build up a price for an artist, all this stuff. Now I know it's all happening right now. I know that like collectors of curators, and all these things are happening, but it's slowly building into artists are being curators. Which should be That's the truth. Like it should be our district jurors. I know, like a lot of people are like, well, the collectors should be the curators, and you know, they're the ones that collection, but the artists know the art. artists know the art, that's what they do. They they make art, it should be curing other artists and bringing them in and onboarding a new. And I visualise this beautiful like, utopia of like artists onboarding other artists, bringing in collectors working with artists and like this symbiotic relationship where everybody was like getting along, and not just pumping bags, but like actually collecting art for the pure joy of cherishing it and putting it on their walls that I know, like, we've sidetracked because of like the PFP projects. And, you know, we could go into the history on why that all happened. That could take an hour, but it's like, the reason it all happened is because of the bull run during a pandemic created by a revolution during Art. You know, it was like all these things happen at once that created the chaos that is that today, but I think it will filter out. And what I believe will happen is that our will prevail. And that's what I saw originally when I got on to you know, NF T's was that it was the main thing, the main function that I saw was the self sovereigns backbone and the idea that we could really create a legacy on the blockchain that would be there forever, you know, you, you'd be able to share your work show it archivally show when it was created. I think that's so important to artists that don't understand how to do that it's not capable of doing that. And this really just defeated the middleman from the galleries taking a percentage. I mean, you manifold has proven it by we don't have to work with super rare or foundation or any platform, you can release your own contract and sell out from you know, when I did my open addition to Reuben will and He did all his open, it's just like, when an artist is traded a community and really establish an ecosystem within their market and their their art, they're able to cut out the middleman from the auction houses of Sotheby's to Christie's just being able to do it on their own. And what could be better than that we're all tried the dream for an artist is to be able to be sustainable, and to be able to create art, they don't want to get rich, they just want to be able to make art. That's all they do is want to create, like I'm talking about someone here. I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna generalise but for the most part, artists didn't get in it to make money. They got it because they love creating art. So therefore, how I see is that NF T's allow that ability.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  33:18  Yeah, that's, that's awesome. That's well put, you know, a lot of people kind of I see it that a lot of people are judging what's NFT is without understanding it. So I love how you share that perspective. Now, I know that you have two galleries as well do you still have the two galleries running at the moment John, or
John Knopf  33:42  No, I shut them down during that when the pandemic hit, there was no way to keep them open sustain the rent and, and honestly like to keep the gallery open, is it is what I would call a time for it takes literally all of your time and you have no time to shoot anything, do anything you're running the business, it's the exact opposite of what I want to do is the exact opposite of like, the reason I got out and running car sales and shit like that, it was like I don't want to deal with customer service or deal with employees or deal with any of that. So galleries to me was like, it was a beautiful dream of mine. But when I finally got there it was cornflakes. I didn't really enjoy as much as I thought it would.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:19  So I love I love that you know, and I want to hear what I want you to share that a little bit more. So what what was you know, I think most photographers dream to have galleries, right?
John Knopf  34:33  I have lights like Oh, it's so
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:36  cool my own my own photos on my own walls that have been and people come and have a look at it. So what what does it take to build a gallery and what what's what's your take, like? You know, when people say, you know, you know what, John, I want to build a gallery what what do you think, you know, what advice would you give to people who are still pursuing that dream?
John Knopf  34:58  Yeah, it's funny when people come to me they're like I'm gonna build a gallery like I'm really excited about it and I hate to like, like, just totally destroy their dream and I'm like, yeah, so I'm just gonna give you this the truth on all this shit real quick. Like, that was my dream. You know, I went to Vegas, I saw Peter lik gallery and I was like, I'm going to build a gallery one day, I'm gonna sell my art on walls and big acrylic prints and, you know, have been collectors and dude. Wow, that was rough, you know, and I'll start like, I opened my first gallery in Vegas, when I moved from Tucson, Arizona to Vegas, I had been living in Tucson, it was cheaper, I was doing my photography out there. And I figured I had come to Vegas a couple of times to I wanted to shoot a picture of the strip, I'd never shot a city. And I needed a city, I wanted lights, I wanted that cool effect. And this was you know, 10 years ago, 12 years ago, it was and I'm gonna say like, 2012 or something like that. And so 2011. So going back and forth. This was like, right before the causal was built, maybe 2010, whatever. Right before the castle was built, I had this vision, where this tower has the perfect view of everything, the foul, didn't strip all the things I need. So I'm gonna go back and forth to Vegas, shoot streets, whatever, figure out what I want to do, while I'm there, figure out how I'm gonna live there. So I moved to Vegas with the idea that I'm going to be a music photographer, and, you know, maybe make some money off of music photography. And I had gone into lounges and seeing this, this photographer, or I'm sorry, this musician playing, you know, in Frankie, and I was like, This guy's gonna be headliner one day, if I moved to Vegas, I'll be his photographer. And like, that doesn't make any sense. But to me, it made all the sense of the world. I was like, obviously, I'm going to be his photographer, and I'm going to be able to make money off of this. And I'll be able to survive and then be able to open the gallery one day by meeting him and he can introduce me all his friends. Just just crazy, stupid idea, right? This is I want to like just I'm putting this gonna take a minute, but this is gonna put into perspective of what it took to get me my first gallery wasn't like it just opened up. Like I was so rich kid that just bought into a gallery. So moved to Vegas living out of my car because I can't afford a place and I'm shooting on the strip like bands locally. And lo and behold, one day that Frankie guy does become a headliner. Couple months into me living in Vegas. So I get into his show, and I speak backstage at stuff my camera, do show shot photos, sneak back mid stage, show him the photos. And I'm like, Hey, man, this is my work. Do you have a photographer any and he's like, these are amazing. These are some of the best photos. Can you meet me tomorrow for lunch? And I'm like, Yeah, I'll meet you tomorrow. And I'm, like, stoked, dude. I've never even really talked to too many celebrities before. This guy's like, I go to this restaurant. The next day. He's got his own menu at the restaurant. Like I'm like, Dude, this guy's huge. Like, what is happening? He's like, I just got into the stratosphere Hotel Casino as a headliner. I want you to be my exclusive photographer. Have you ever shot people before? And I'm like, yes, that never happened. I've only shot it. But I'm like, fuck it, dude. You know, like, if you're in the champagne room, go with it. Nobody don't like act like you've been there before. So like Yemen shot people like no problem. Gotcha was like, What do you want to get paid? And it was a split second decision where it hit me and I'm like, I don't want to get paid. I want you to network me out and introduce me to everyone you know, once you introduce me as celebrities, executives, everybody, because my goal is not to be your photographer. No offence, man. You're dope. But I need to be my own star. And I want to be like famous photographer who shoots landscapes and own my own gallery. And he's like, okay, is like we'll work out a deal. You work for free. I'll introduce you to everybody. You'll get a gallery you'll you'll do your thing. He introduces me to everybody. I do get a gallery out of this. Six months into it. I'm shooting for him. barely making, like anything like sustain life. Like I'm shooting bands like on the strip for 50 bucks, like barely surviving. But I'm surviving. And one day I'm at his house for dinner. And there's a guy who walks in dude looks like Professor X. I'm thinking this guy's rich combined marinara. That's just immediately I'm a survivor. I'm like, Dude can buy my art. That's just goes to my head. So I started talking to him. Turns out he happens to be the CEO of the stratosphere. And he wants to know, well, he's like, you're not obviously going to work for this chump for the rest of your life. When he says that to me. He goes, What do you want? What's your dream, your passion, they showed my art or my phone? Well, his wife happens to be a huge landscape photography collector loves my art. And he goes, Do you want to open a gallery? I was like, That's my dream. Like, that's why I moved to Vegas. I'm gonna open a gallery one day, I've only been here, you know, six months by, that's what's gonna happen. And I was like, well, he's like, Well, what do you want to do? Like what you want to do? And I'm like a casino, dude. Of course. He's like, would you want to open in mine? And I'm like, Yeah, of course. Like, yeah. And I thought he was joking, dude, I didn't think he was serious. But he was and he offered me a percentage base rent so that I could not have to pay rent, basically pay rent based on what I sold. And I didn't have enough money to open the gallery to create any type of like, it had to be renovated. Like the whole space had been opened in 15 years. It was the spot you know, had to be repainted. So dude, I pulled everything that I could I called everybody that I could I sold as much as I could. I made it happen. So the camera sold everything I could To be able to build out this gallon bro I've been there at night painting it, doing everything re carpeting it everything myself and I hire a construction crew finally for the stuff that I just can't do. And you know we're coming down to like three months and everybody comes in, they finish it off for me. This cost me more than I ever could expect it. I'm broke as shit. But I did it. I got my gallery we opened a grand opening night. They oppressed the whole thing. You know, celebrities come from like if you need Paul's pen, Tara, you're like all these like, you know, the Purple Rain, like musicians like all these dope people that Frankie knew Joey Fatone. But for bat like everybody, dude, because cherry on top. It was like the coolest thing ever, for me that I'm just some kid that I didn't know what was going on. But everyone told me I was never going to make it. So opening that was like a huge, like, I think building block for the foundation of like how I believed in myself, but to get to that point, was next to impossible. And then next level was like opening the next gallery. It tried to create that. But ultimately, when I did all of this, it was all for the wrong reasons. And that's what I found out. And I can't express that enough that it's like, if you're doing it just because you're trying to prove everybody wrong, you're chasing somebody else's dream, or you think they just gotta make you happy. Really look at what you're doing. Because you have to deal with employees, you have to deal with security, you have to deal with a real life opening a business, city licences. Everything that I never want to do, I barely can deal with my own bills like trying to deal with a business. I didn't want to do it, man. I just I'm an artist, dude, I didn't. This is not where my head was at. And I wasn't sure I was an entrepreneur, but not in the sense that I wanted to I wanted someone else do all that stuff. That's not so yes, you can hire someone to do all these things. But when you're opening your own company, like an actual art gallery, you can't just hire a dart manager and be like, good luck. Here's my art. Here's the stories, you got to be there, you have to train the people, there's people that call in sick, there's people that don't show up, there's people that get DUIs, and then never show up again. And now you got to rehire all the people all over and you're stuck in Minnesota for two fucking years, when you should have only been there for six months, it'll be in the gallery. But that's the shift that happens. And that is I think what I discovered going through all of these, you know, ups and downs and obstacles and addictions and just craziness was chasing anything else but what you love and really want to do, even though you think you might want to do it really analyse and understand what comes with it, because I'm glad I did it. Uh, don't get me wrong, I don't regret any of it. Because I would have never learned this today still be going I want to open a gallery one day. I'm glad I got it out of my system, because and I'm glad that blockchain showed up because this is making it so much more available for us to not have to create brick and mortar galleries. And it's funny side note, but it's like so funny to me when people argue on clubhouse or on Twitter's basis how much energy the blockchain needs to take, and I'm like, open a gallery for a week and try shipping a print to Dubai, I promise you that amount of energy. Without question, you'll never even cook close to consume that amount of energy by sending transactions to the blockchain. Like we use so much more energy creating these galleries and shipping prints and the acrylic that we use. It's the opposite of what we're talking about. And what we're trying to do, which is preservation protecting the planet. So it's like, it was hand in hand. But I have to say like, as much as I had the dream of opening the gallery. It was definitely like when it came down to it. And to it, it was the opposite of everything I ever wanted.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:30  Yeah, no. I mean, it's, it's, I'm sure, you know, we all go through that, that time in our life where we're like, you know, I've been dreaming for this, I wanted this and then you get there and you feel like, okay, this is not the utopia that I'm looking for. And, you know, so you you are, you know, you find that out the hard way. And, of course, you know, at the end of the day, it's good to kind of go through it because, like you say, otherwise, you you know you lie on your dying bed and you ask yourself What if right, and it's one of the reason why we should pursue our passion. So that's awesome, man. That's the widest story what a story is so inspiring you know that two year old and the amount of dedication persistent and just conviction that you put on your heart and you're in your journey. It's absolutely inspiring. So thanks for now. Yeah, man, it's Wow, just like hearing you just like wow, like,
John Knopf  44:32  I mean, I I got into it to put art on my walls. You know, it was like, I want landscape art on my walls. How do I make that happen? I didn't think it would turn into this.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:43  Yeah, no, that's that's really cool. So you've done a whole lot of photography, not only landscape you did music you did. Wedding land or so well, Britain already exists. Well, yeah, that's sick. What? What? What is your favourite Auto, auto, all that what what is your favourite genre of photography and why?
John Knopf  45:06  outdoor landscape all day 100% I mean, I do love music photography in the sense that like, I got to meet the Rockstar idols that like I love their music It wasn't even about like, the idea like that was cool shooting for rockstars and being onstage and like all these things, but it was genuinely like, I'm a fan of the music, I love music. And so like being able to just like, collaborate and like, shoot and listen to the music like Dude, I got free concerts out of it, there was nothing better. So that was always like one of the coolest and I enjoyed studio photography for a bit like shooting, like, you know, models or like creating scenes that I enjoyed, like that was always fun, but ultimately, it just kind of like turned into like, I never published any of it, I never really did much with it, it was for me, like I've really kind of created art my whole life. For me, it wasn't to sell it, I have so much studio photography, I never charge anybody for I've rented lights, and, you know, House of Lords and phase ones. And I just, it was just fun, I just enjoyed it. So like, I would say Ultimately, though, like, my favourite thing in the world is going out into the wilderness, you know, for a week by myself in the middle of nowhere, and just, you know, taking photos and, you know, just travelling around. That's, that's one of the best feelings is just seeing places and cultures and seeing things that just, I never thought I would ever see in a lifetime.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:24  I can totally relate to that. I think, you know, with with landscape photography, you get this special feeling, you know, a special, ominous and therapeutic and you know, meditation within that, that you can't get from anything else. And yeah, I can totally relate to that. Man, you know, it's, it's been crazy, you know, hearing your story and how you get to where you are today. And what was some of the most what was some of the hardest moment? Have you ever had a moment where you felt like, you know what this is? I'm just gonna give it up? Or have you always had that conviction and belief that no matter how hard it gets us to be like, You know what, this is just another challenge. And you know, the light at the end of the tunnel is gonna be there eventually. Have you ever had a moments like that at
John Knopf  47:19  all, John Deere can't even count the moments where I just wanted to give up and how many times I've just said maybe I'm not meant to be a photographer. I'm just like one instance, you know, when it was, I was five years into photography, I had not really sold like one print. I was just trying to survive, you know, and I said to this famous photographer at the time was sent to him and sold any art. Am I even meant to be a photographer? Is my art even good enough? And he looked at me and said, If you have to ask, no. And that hit heart. Because what it meant was, is not him just being a dick, because I was a dick answer. But he was a point that he was trying to prove, which was are you doing it for the money? Are you doing it? Because you want people to collect your art? Are you doing it because you actually like taking photos? And if you actually like taking photos? Do you give a shit whether people buy your art or whether they like it? And it was like, Oh yeah, I really don't care whether or not anybody wants to buy my art, whether or not anybody likes it, because this is for me, just for my walls. It didn't produce this for somebody else's while I did it, because I couldn't afford landscape photography. And I wanted that shit on my wall. So I could do it. So I did it. And that was all there is to it. So I think like we forget, you know, we don't see curious and we forget and we we get stuck in our ways. And I always go back to that because there's been so many times you can shift you when I moved to Minnesota and hit rock bottom and wanted to give up photography would have sold like cameras to pay rent. You know, just recently over two years ago, when I bought into crypto sold all my cameras and got really good at trading, and was making so much money that I was like, Maybe I shouldn't do photography anymore. And then NFT showed up and full circle, I'm right back into where I started. So I feel like the universe will pull you to where you need to go. And I know that's kind of like the lowest corny shit to say, but it's a fact it just does. Because it has happened to me so many times where I'm like, done with photography, I have to make money I have to help a family survive, and then it gets pulled right back in and who the fuck would have thought that I would get into stock trading and crypto. And then all of a sudden discover a clubhouse or while running flat or Scientology rooms on clubhouse is a joke trolling at night. And all of a sudden find a photography in a tea room and get sucked right back into a trading knowledge, my knowledge in photography galleries and put it right back into a full circle use six months later. And the site it's just it's cyclical, and the universe will pull you right back to where you're supposed to go. And maybe I wasn't meant to be a photographer. Maybe I was just you know, like, who knows what I was meant to do. But what I do know is that every single time I try to quit It heard go, I can't do this anymore. I get sucked right to suck back in because it's a passion. It's an obsession. And I think a lot of artists are at us, you know. And that's, I really believe that because the majority of the people that I've met that and I didn't know a lot of artists before clubhouse in this whole scene, Lord jority of us are addicts. We, we get obsessed or shit, whether it be Twitter spaces, Twitter, tweeting, likes, clubhouse, whatever it may be, we all get addicted to something. And so I would say to those that are discouraged or want to give up, the best thing you could do is what I've learned recently, which is start from scratch, ever heard of like someone who is allergic to food, and they can't figure out what they're allergic to. So they just start from the bare bones of literally making potatoes and they bring in kids carrots, and they bring in cucumbers, they slowly bring in things until all of a sudden, they're sick again. So I would say start from the bare bones again, I deleted Twitter a couple of weeks ago, I delete all social media because I was just down, I was just now stealing it. There's a lot of toxicity in the spaces fucking with my head. And I'm like, this isn't dogs flood anymore. And if it's not fun, I'm out to deleted everything started from scratch, not shooting anymore, just literally waking up in the morning, working out swimming, getting healthy, eating healthy. And all of a sudden, I'm filling that thirst to get back into Twitter to get back in the spaces and starting to become fun. Again, I'd say throw everything away and start over again, starting from scratch is one of the best things that I think we don't realise that we have the capability of doing as humans, we can start and adapt very quickly to anything, which very few animals on this planet can do that. But as humans, we're capable of adapting. And I feel like failure is something that we need to try harder and strive harder for it fail faster. Because the faster you fail, the quicker you're going to get to actually being successful. The girl named Rachel Wood who says us on spaces and I love it when she says that fail faster. I love that because it's the truth, fail faster. He I am learned so much more from my failures and a half from from my successes. And I will continue I think to fail because it ultimately gets me to that point of success. And I know I say success is just continuing to fail. Do what you love. And that really is it. Just do what you love. And eventually you will find what makes you happy. And that is what makes you happy is literally doing what you love. You're already made successful. And so yeah, I just I continue to preach to all the artists because it's like a lot of artists within the space they've been there for like two or three years. They're like I haven't sold anything and it's like wait till you've done this for 15 years opened up multiple galleries had people shit all over your art laugh at your art telling you you kid you have no Photoshop skills that you're terrible that I could take this on my iPhone, all that shit go through it all. Come back to me 15 years later, and then tell me why it isn't selling. I'll have sympathy then maybe, but right now, grind, grind it out, because it's not easy. It's it's all about learning the conviction within yourself and when you find that it won't matter how much art you sell, because you'll be stoked that you continuously make art.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  53:07  Man Hallelujah. Amen. Amen to that. I mean, like, geez, you know, just drop all that wisdom there. And I love I love how you say you know, about failing, you know, embracing fail because I feel like that it's impossible to get to have success without fail. It's just part of the journey. And, you know, it's it's it really opens up the perspective you know, you say you say this that nowadays with everything that we have on our hands on our laptop and everything that come you know, the next day next hour right all of these services, we are so used to you know, overnight success right and we are expecting that and you know, people are expecting to see that especially in the in the in the NFT world, you know, from the bull run that we had, and I love that what you say there you know, like well, if you haven't sold that, sold any NFB yet, you know, in the past two, three years, like brand new now, it's cool. Until
John Knopf  54:20  don't have expectations. Just be prepared. That's what I always say in any situation. It's like don't expect shit. You don't deserve anything. Let's be honest. None of us deserve anything. We're not entitled to anything this entitlement shit in his den. It's not about deserving, it's about earning and therefore don't expect just be prepared for the worst and for the best. And ultimately, you'll probably come out ahead because of that.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  54:45  Data is so well put Nah, that's that's awesome. And I love it. I love that. What a wisdom that you have, you know you have put together in this pause 15 years in this journey and I'm just so happy that out I met you today or yesterday, we literally I mean, this is what I love about the web three, allows me truly just exchanged message. And now I'm here with you.
John Knopf  55:10  I mean, support Eagles do this was a call that the web three spaces like you can message someone and they're just like, yeah, what's 500%?
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:16  Now? I want to ask you this one thing, right? You know, when you get into the web three, I feel like the cool one of the coolest thing about the web three that separates from the web two, or, you know, the traditional way of doing things. Of course, you know, the technology there, you know, the provenance and ability for us to track us as an artist, so forth. But one of the most powerful thing that I see in the web tree is community and collaboration, right? I feel like in the past, there has been a lot of competition, a lot more competition. And, you know, there is still some of that in the web through you, right. But I see a lot more collaboration, a lot more people working together with each other, to make things happen. And what what do you see what do you what's your definition of, of community of, you know, of community and collaboration? Because I know that a lot of people are throwing that word out there without, you know, a deeper meaning behind that. So I'd love to hear your take on this.
John Knopf  56:30  Yeah, you know, let's just go back in history to 2021. A decade ago, in web three, you know, that collaboration and community is, you know, the eight market is what it is today, because of collaboration and community. And I think a lot of people forget that, because it's just like a bunch of Wall Street bed pumps. And it's like just craziness. But before that, the only utility to the age was a bathroom wall that you could write on. And that was it by pixels. And the shapes were shit, there are $200 and nobody cared. It was just fun. It was just a fun thing. But what created the market today with the derivatives, you know, like, well, we got the apes immediately opened up a clubhouse room, and then all the artists started the all the clubhouse artists were making derivatives, you know, like, immediately, it was just like, you know, Dario and like, I think Savannah and like gr, like, all these guys are just making like, all these different trips, I don't know, it's Sunday and dropping all the shit, just artists, okay? Like artists in general, they were just like, they would go into town that make a derivative. And that's like, everybody was so pumped about this, because you add the IP for the age. So you could do that. And this is where the collaboration that community came in, because we'd hold these rooms for 10 hours a day, just talking making noises, raiding rooms, you know, going into Gary V's were gotten blocked by Dane Cook one day for raiding his row, like, we just we would take over a stage and like for Oak at the time, like he was like, you know, really famous on call bow. So like, he would jump into a room and they would immediately laud Him. And then he would bring us all up on stage slowly. And then he would use like, you know, cold water like banana. And all this would change our PFPs age. So we'd like well, I like to scrape it, like, like, like four year old daughter at the time was just like any other room just like it was thing to do. She's gonna grow up thinking her dad is insane. Like he's on conference calls, just screaming like an eight before in the morning. It was like, but this is what created the entire community around the age the market, what you see today would pumped into 150/8. That was the market that was celebrities buying bags from markets that we created by just a community of us just having fun. We never expected this to happen. We didn't pump up like this is our bags, everybody should buy him. It was us reading rooms, celebrities see them, you know, derivatives flying everywhere, being able to use it for whatever you want it. That was the core of the NFT community that created the pump and dump market that exists today. But the pump and dump market was just based on that fuel that that that bull run where you see money will come scams. And I think right now like you said, the community is so different. The collaboration definition is so different. Because it's not what it was on clubhouse, it's not artists getting together and using each other's art to collaborate, you would have never seen that 100 years ago. But now you see that right? Because all of a sudden, we were artists during the pandemic lowly shit, found each other as a bunch of other artists and said we should collaborate to be able to sell our art. That was all it was. It was like a beautiful moment. So when you think about what's transitioning today, which is, you know, this ultra trading zone, you know, everyone trying to get their bags. It's a it's a moment it's a it's a blip within the art community. It's a blip within the revolution of you know, what is art, you know, it's the Renaissance, right, shall we call it a digital Renaissance? It was a beautiful time when art was just literally all of us. Were just trading gas back and forth. We were we weren't trading like we were trading eath there was no collectors we would just buy each other's work. And if you release something your friend will buy and then he release something he'd buy it but he was just like this funny thing. So it's like the community back then is so different than it is but it will I think true transition back into what it was may not be the ultra small community that it was back then. But I think, you know, the core definition of what the collaboration and community was what what you saw, historically, it was what created the aid market today. That is, I think the epitome of what the NFT community can do, is they just get together, they have a bunch of fun, and all of a sudden a projects worth, you know, a million dollars. And that's what's so crazy, I think is like, that was just a bunch of artists hanging out on a virtual space talking back and forth. I mean, you know, pranks you own 10% of the collection at the time, you know, Blau had bought 100 of them, it was giving them away on clubhouse. It was, it was a crazy time back then. And it was like, it was just for the love of it. It wasn't for the money because there was no real good money in it just that it was just a good time. We were just hardest having fun. And I feel like yeah, the community has been lost to this narrative of pumping dumps by dA that was the core definition of what it was when
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:01:06  Yeah, man, I feel like this this is this is a good kind of conclusion to to you know, the whole conversation we had today about passion about love, right? When you have a love and we pour it into that wanting it you'd never know where it can it goes and this is the one example where community of people just, you know, sharing hanging out doing what they loved the most and then it grows out of it. Right and I mean, we we never would have expected where it where it kind of go, but it does and it's it's amazing. In Oberliga managing
John Knopf  1:01:44  the board, he just sucks so like the reason we use them as PFPs and like Sir wearing them is because at night, you know, we would get bored like during clubhouse days, we would spend six hours a day on clubhouse, convincing everyone that crypto wasn't a scam, that NF T's were real and that we were artists actually being able to survive off of NF T's we were onboarding people all they look, we were answering questions every day. Can I get a foundation in like, like it was always the same questions? How does this work? And do they own the rights to your work? And can they printed like was always a sale every day? We were literally like, like the ask advice help for like the NFT world. And so at night to blow off steam, we would put on like cop avatars or like you know, animal avatars and go raid rooms that we put on cops, they put on sirens ago it's takeover room. So when the eights came out, we were like, well, yeah, at least we owe these identities. At least we own these avatars. Let's do something with these and raid rooms. So that's how like, that whole thing started with us just answering questions on clubhouse and being bored at night and blowing off steam by creating, you know, a raid ovo a troll. Like we were just like, we were just a bunch of trolls just literally just trade a stupid market that we never thought would actually take.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:02:54  Yeah, man, it's, you know, I love how it builds a community. And I feel like now we know with this quote unquote bear market, I feel like this definition of communities actually strengthened again, because, you know, during the bull market, everyone is just saying it without a meaning behind it. But now, the people who are still here, I feel like the people who probably we'll be here for a long, long time, you know, because this is the toughest in the market right now. So yeah, very, very glad to see you know, that I'm still part of it, that we are still part of it, you know, because we know that it's going to be there for a while. But John min min is this been such a great interview, I has so much wisdom so much, you know, inspiration coming out of you. So thanks a lot for sharing a lot of that. Thanks a lot for opening up and sharing some of the difficult stories that you know coming to your life. I know it's not easy to be vulnerable sometimes and open up so it's a big inspiration for me to hear a lot of that one thing one question that I always ask all of my guests in in the podcast is that if you have one single advice that you could give that you could that you would live off live off or you know that you would give to your younger self what would that one advice be?
John Knopf  1:04:24  Or to say because it's like Les younger self would have never listened to me see people younger yourself to be let go go put
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:04:31  yourself who are you?
John Knopf  1:04:34  Bless, I will hit you know, like, if I could give like some advice to the kids and probably would never listen to you either way. But you know, I would say be patient and be honest, like the hardest thing is a kid but be patient because we all want that instant gratification that we've been raised to get it you know we have instant the internet instant videos. We don't have to go to the video store. We're gonna have to go to the music store, buy music, it's everything's instant. So we've all bought that instant success. We all want to that, you know, everyone sees the YouTube influencers instance, we all want it. Why do you want it to get rich Kate, all I can say, be patient with all of it will come and do time it you will learn along the way. If you just got all the successful out once you just gonna, you're gonna waste it. If I had gotten all the success of like in my 20s or 30s I promise you I would have blown it all away some strip club partying because I was a child. I'm glad that I got this success as I got older, because I know now what I want to do with it, and how I want to change things for my life and my family and my legacy. So be patient. And the second store the second thing saved nothing for this one back. It was sounds crazy, your parents will never tell you to do that. Save nothing, man. Go all in. Because if you don't risk it all, you will never find out if it was worth it. You'll always go, I could have done this much more and maybe I would have made it I can tell you and almost 40 years old. That leads to regrets. And you don't want that shit in your life. So do everything you can to make something work. If you really love it. Save nothing from this went back.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:06:17  That is one hell of an advice right there and 100% Man I think you know, if we always look back, I mean, it's important to look back into SAS and learn from it by we always look back. Although hell we know where we want to go, you know, probably gonna hit a tree or something, right?
John Knopf  1:06:36  You do not know your direction, you might not know exactly where you want to go, that might be the case. But if you follow what you love, you follow your heart, you'll eventually get to where you're going. I never knew where I was going, Dude, I had no direction, did not know where I wanted to be with my photography, but I followed what I love. And it eventually led me into getting me nowhere needed to galleries. And you know, ultimately being able to sell my art to sustain my lifestyle. So I think it's it's a it's a tribute to being able to just follow what you love and look, you may never ever sell your art. But if you're doing what you love every single day, you get an up you're doing it because you love it. I don't think that necessarily matters. I think that's just a bonus. Because I know like as someone everyone could go that's easy, bro you just sold you know, a fortune worth of art last year your you're happier. I can tell you that hasn't changed anything. Like yes, it has changed my life in the sense that like I'm able to not stress about money. But that hasn't changed my lifestyle that hasn't changed me doesn't change who I am I'm not different because of that you can ask almost anybody that met me on clubhouse from day one to who I am today after selling all the needs of everything. And the same asshole that I was two years ago and nothing has changed. And I have to like really like emphasise it you can't let money change you you have to find that balance and therefore if you find what you love before you find an income for it, you'll find that conviction within yourself to just keep going no matter what and then you'll decide whether or not you want to do it for the money or because you want to do it because love it
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:08:09  100% I feel like money is just a multiplier you know if you're passionate and money will help you with your passion if you're greedy you're just become greedy. You know it's 100%
John Knopf  1:08:22  it was Johnny Cash who said at best you know money only thing money did for me is now I don't have to stress about money or anything it just stresses me in a fuck out
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:08:34  Well, John, it's been a really good conversation man. Thanks a lot for being here sharing your wisdom and all of this story. It is so it's very inspiring to hear your journey now for the people who want to learn more about you and connect with your work with with your story with your journey. What is the best way for them to to find you
John Knopf  1:08:57  you could just go to my website you know my name Jane off.com and go to my twitter John now photos but yeah, that's pretty much all available online. Just google me there's another John Neff out there that's like a billionaire that started a pharmacy shout out to him he bought my book and my art love that guy. Love all the John offs out there. They're good people. We've actually like collaborated a bunch of us so we're all friends but you know, the majority like there's just me and the other John off on Google. So just Google us you'll find one of us. No way. That's
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:09:25  that's actually really cool.
John Knopf  1:09:28  I hit him up like five years ago, bro. And I was like, Hey, not doing so good in this art thing and OSI you're a billionaire. Want to ask some advice, man, you're another John NOF figured we know we're brothers homies and he literally respond he's like, Yo, what up? He started Chinese like I bought your book and some art let's do this. Let's do a wild. Yeah, so I started reaching out there John Dawson like meeting up and stuff. I met another one in Minnesota. We're friends. We smoked weed together. It was pretty cool.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:09:55  So you got the John album club now.
John Knopf  1:09:58  Oh, John. I've got like quick side Story I moved to Minnesota could not find wheat. Google jammed off in Minnesota found one on Facebook, messaged him and I was like, Hey, bro, just moved to Minnesota. Looking for some weed. You got me? He's like, Yeah, actually I do. I went over to his apartment dude is driving the same car. I'm driving back in like my hometown. And I'm like, get to his house two times read. He's like, got you bro. Like we're friends. I was like, this is just it. He comes to a gallery opening. Like he shows up. My sister meets and we're like, this is John off and she's like shutting Kimbell. No way. I love the job milestone are all that is awesome. That is awesome. Well, John,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:10:42  thanks a lot for it is a lot of input A lot, a lot of, you know inspiration in this and weekenders. For those of you who are listening, you know, check out his work. Check out his music count. He put together as some of the most amazing photos out there some of the most, most amazing art out there. And yeah, look, you know, as you see, as you hear in this podcast itself, he's such an inspiring person, inspiring voice in this in this space. So make sure you follow Him, connect with them and learn a thing or two from him and, you know, be patient like John said, be patient, it will come in due time. All right. Well, thanks a lot for tuning in. And I'll see you guys next week. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot, John. And I'll catch you next time,
John Knopf  1:11:31  bro. Thank you so much for this. This was incredible.
 

Ep 56 - How Pete O’Hara channels his rejection from Hollywood to do what he is passionate about the most - adventure photography & videography

Hey Wicked Hunters, Welcome back to The Art of Photography Podcast, Today I want to welcome Peter O'Hara.Pete considers himself “A guy trying to live out adventures I created in my head as a child while flipping through National Geographic Magazines.”
The majority of Pete’s early creative career was spent working in the Canadian television industry, providing the fortunate opportunity at a young age to travel the world while developing my skills as a cinematographer, editor, and photographer.
With these skills, he began working on branded projects with agencies and brands such as Ikea, Buick and Lexus before beginning to focus my expertise on television development collaborating with companies such as Disney, HGTV, Discovery Channel and The Property Brothers.
Pete says,” While these projects allowed for personal and professional growth, after 10 years in the industry, I was ready to take on a new challenge.
Though I always loved my time spent abroad, it wasn't until spending two months travelling to New Zealand that I discovered my love and passion for outdoor adventure photography and filmmaking.
Through this realisation, the course of my career naturally shifted, and I began to invest more time learning how to improve my skills and the art of adventure storytelling.
I am a professional drone operator with advanced drone certification through Transport Canada and aim to enhance these stories by taking to the skies. My goal since beginning this creative venture is to share my passion for exploration and create content that will inspire others to spend more time outdoors and in nature as well as give back along the way.”
Highlights over the past few years are working with Travel Yukon, Tourism Vancouver Island, and Campbell River Whale Watching, JAR of Hope Foundation raising awareness for Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy.
Everest Vlog Link - https://youtu.be/UXZvlnBkXMU
Website - https://www.silverfernproductions.ca
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pete_ohara/
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@AdventureswithPeteJenna
 
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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/   
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Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/thewickedhunt/ 
https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/ 
Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast in the comment below and subscribe
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Pete O'Hara  0:00  I was like eight months trying to get all the contracts, right with everything. So many people were involved, right? There was just it was like, endless. There's production companies there is Disney there is like the talent there was us. And so, you know, I was putting a lot of my time and energy into this, like over a year. And you know, I was editing it on my own time putting the sizzle together, like weeks and weeks and weeks and months. And then we flew back to LA to put it together to finish it at a studio. And it was just like, I remember, we finished it, and I was just like, flew back home and I was just totally burnt out. And then like they called About a month later and said, Yeah, we're not gonna pick this up. So there's just like, it's spent all this money spent like two years of my life trying to put this thing together and then just like they're just like, in a second. They're like, ya know?
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:53  Hey, weekend is Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artists journey and adventure behind their photographer, journey. And today, we have someone from the Canadian Rockies, someone who, you know, I've been acquainted with a long, long time, and I've been following his not only amazing photos, and we have a lot of photographers here, but he's also an incredible videographer. And we'll talk about all of that in this podcast. But before we get there, let's welcome Pete. Hey, P. Welcome to the podcast. I'm very excited to have you here
Pete O'Hara  1:32  is Dan, thanks for having me really excited to be here and have a great conversation with you. Yeah, man,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:37  like, you know, like, I think you're only the second photographer slash videographer and I've ever had here. So I'd really love to hear a little bit more about that. But before we can get into, you know, all this project that you did, you know, in a pile and you know, all of your adventure in the Canadian Rockies, exploring ice skates and all these incredible, incredible places that many people think that it was just a dream. I mean, I used to think those places are a place of a dream that I'm never going to get to. So before we get to all that, give us a little bit of introduction of who you are, and what got you into photography. Yeah,
Pete O'Hara  2:22  you know, that's a great place to start, because, well, my name is Pete. And I started out not in these amazing places in the Rockies, I started out actually in Toronto, working in the television and commercial industry for a long, long time, probably about 1015 years. And so that's kind of where I jumped into photography, I was probably like learning cinematography, and sort of shaping my career to become a director of photography more than I was a photographer. And you know, so that was kind of that was kind of the direction I was heading in. And when I was coming up through the industry, the people that I was assisting, or shadowing the directors of photography's the DPS or the cinematographers, you know, the the advice that they gave me is like, just to become a better photographer, you should pick up a photography camera and learn photography, because it'll help you become, you know, to help you with composing images to help you with lighting and all that kind of stuff. And so, you know, I took that advice, and I did that, and it was just, you know, no pun intended, it clicked fast. And it was quickly became more, more more than just like a learning tool to become a better cinematographer. It was like, became, quite quickly a passion and something that, you know, I, I love just as much as cinematography. And so that's kind of how it happened was working in the TV industry.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:48  edisi church thing, wow, I didn't know that. Say, this is why I love this podcast, I just get to learn new things about artists and their journey. So what drive you to become to get into the TV industry? Is that something was there a bit of motivation from yourself that you want to do that or it's pretty much kind of the path that life leaves you there.
Pete O'Hara  4:13  You know, I got lucky in high school because, you know, like, it got to about grade 11 grade 12 and we were kind of everyone had to start thinking about okay, what kind of college programmes University programmes I want to go after and I got lucky early on and I think I was in grade 11 I was just working in I think it was communications class and they introduced us to like video editing and shooting and all that kind of stuff and like I'll never forget I still I love this like when you we went out and it was like you know we we didn't know what we're doing it was probably like what Yeah, it's like really bad stuff. But just filming a scene out in the field and then coming back to the computer to edit it and like what happens when you take this piece and match it with this piece? The first time I edited two clips together and they sort of worked. It was just that was it. You know what I mean? I was just like, I love this. And it was just like there's an addiction to it, right? It's like that one thing where when you edit this piece in this piece, and now it's like, that opens up a whole world of, you know, documentary filmmaking, storytelling. And I was I was just completely hooked. So I got lucky. And I had that right from high school. And then, you know, it took a while to think, like, do I want to shape this into a career because I was so young. And I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I thought maybe I knew I wanted to adventure too. And so I was thought about maybe joining the Canadian Army, I thought about becoming a pilot. So I wanted to join the army to become a pilot. But I realised I didn't really, I was also getting into trouble a lot. So I don't think the army might have been a great place for me, because I probably wasn't good with authority. And so I guess that was the quote unquote, artist in me. And so I started to look at programmes, and I was like, Oh, you can do you can do this as a career. You can do TV school, you can do film school. And that stuff is a career. And so I kind of chose that path. And I went away to college for it. And, you know, college was really typical of like, everyone in college wanted to be a sort of indie filmmaker. And I also caught that bug as well. And so for a long, long time, I wanted to be like a film director. But I never really like, did that I was just doing like, videography, cinematography, that kind of stuff. Like, I never really got into the directing, I was just dreaming about it. And so I went down that, but I went down that dream for a long time, you know, I was like that, you know, like that typical film school like guy that wanted to be a director, and I just, like, ate all the ate all that up, I bought, like 1000s of DVDs. You know, like, I watched movies from, like, the 1920s, all the way up to like modern day cinema, just learning about cinema. And then, you know, through that, once I graduated, college, you had to do an internship. And so I had no idea where to go. And like, at this point, in my life, I wasn't being super intentional about anything, I was just kind of like, there was an opportunity to work in reality TV after college, so I took it. And so I ended up working in reality TV in Toronto for a long, long time. And just kind of like, you know, learning the business, learning the ropes. And it was, it was really good in that sense, in terms of just being exposed to that world, and many different opportunities, and just learning how it all works, but it wasn't, I was never really intentional about the direction I was going, I was just in this massive world of like TV and commercial, and not really shaping my passion into anything. And that's kind of where I'm, you know, I was slowly building myself up to be like a cinematographer. And, and I like happened to stumble into photography, right, like, shadowing. cinematographers, and them telling me, you know, pick up a camera and just pick up a photography camera to learn composition, right. And so I was working on this one show, and I did that, and I started to learn, I started really like it. And then I went travelling for two months to New Zealand and Australia. And it was just photography the whole time, adventure photography, travel photography, and, you know, I think most photographers will have that moment where, for me, it was like doing a long exposure at night, and just seeing what that image produces. On the back of the camera. It's like magic, right? Like, you're opening up your shutter for 30 seconds, and you're opening up light from what you can't see, but all of a sudden, you get this massive exposure on the back of your, in the back of your lens, right. And I was just, I was just in love with that I just, I love the colours, the blues of the sky, of course, being in New Zealand and surrounded by beautiful mountains. And so yeah, that's just kind of that's, that's sort of that started to shape. I started at that point, I think to shape my career more into photography, not immediately, but I started to like put these things together. Like I really liked photography, and I really liked the outdoors and it took a few years. And eventually like after, after a bit of time, I started to become more intentional about what after a lot of failure, I should say, lots of failure and like trying things and things not working out. I was like you know what, I really need to give this this adventure photography and filmmaking like I can bring both both things together and try and make something of it and I started to become really intentional with what I wanted to do. And so I started to actively make choices around that and so that's kind of what brought me to the Rockies in a nutshell.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:36  Wow, what a journey and you know, I remember when I first took my long exposure like I don't remember what it is but I remember when I first took it and then you you open it you close the aperture quite small so you get those star bears and just like this is like looking for street lights and just take this really low exposure. So the idea of the starburst and that was like that was it?
Pete O'Hara  10:02  I know right at some of that about that. It's just like you're right. Like with cars. I remember like I was in New Zealand and Wellington. I just remember like, I remember photographing the city at night from above the hill. And I was just like, wow, look at this image. And then a car like went by my frame. I was like, oh, no, ruin the shot. But then. And then when the after 20 seconds when the image revealed, it's like you have this light streak. I was like, oh my god, it's so cool. You look terrible now, right? But at the time, I was like, just when you're experimenting, and you have that you're like a kid again, right? And you just see all this like, it's like painting almost, you know, painting with light.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:35  Yeah, I mean, like, we never know, it's possible, right? Until we play around with camera before we never see that not with our eyes. So that's, that's really funny, because I can totally relate with that. And, you know, yeah, I was gonna say, like, you were really lucky to be able to get a lot of that direction early on, and you fell in love, you know, I have that click. And it's, it's crazy, isn't it, it's crazy how the simplest thing in life shape the rest of your life. And the rest just become, it doesn't really matter anymore. And I love that I love hearing that. And, like, for many people, that's not the case, like for me, took me 30 years to figure out that this is what I want to do that, you know, finally felt like I'm doing what I've been wanting to do. But you mentioned something very important. And you say, you know, in order to get to where you need to be, and where you are. You've gone through not only once or twice, but a lot of failures and trying things. And so just give us a little bit of a picture of what this those failures are like and how, how does that push you forward? How do you take those failure and make and take that as a fuel to go forward? Instead of, you know, a fuel that burn you down and basically crash and burn? You know,
Pete O'Hara  12:05  that's a fantastic question. Because I think like, like, there's so many quotes on failure, right? Like, I can't remember who it was, but it was like, you know, failures, where you kind of learn everything, and success almost teaches you nothing, right? So I think, and I can I can go into a few stories and in a moment, but I think like it's so true, like failure is basically just data, giving you data of what information that you need to know that you didn't know, right. And so that's, I think the best way to look at it, you know, because it's, especially in our line of work, like, there's going to be like failures, just inevitable, it's just part of it, right. And whether it's like on a big scale, or a little scale, like, you go like, just on a little scale, we'll go out to the back country to try and get a shot and we'll get a shot or we'll go out to you know, here in the Rockies, as you're familiar with the ice fields and the roads closed. And it's like, so you just have to expect that all the time.
Unknown Speaker  13:05  For me,
Pete O'Hara  13:07  working in the television industry. You know, there's definitely a lot of projects that I attempted to do that failed. Ultimately, there's definitely a lot of ideas for TV shows that I would pitch you know, so you deal with rejection on a regular level. And with photography now, too, like you're, you're sending out pitches, you're sending out emails, and you're, you're not hearing back or they're saying you know, we're not interested, etc. So you just just become, I think, for me, it's just about becoming used to that, oh, that's just part of the business. It's just you just have to become comfortable with it. One of the biggest failures, I probably had, I won't even consider it a failure now, but it was more of a learning experience was I was when I was working in the television industry. You know, I was starting to become more intentional. I wanted to I was very ambitious, right? I was like, I want to make TV shows, I want to be director all this stuff. And so like I started a company with a friend became business partners. And we got this idea for the show. And everyone's like, it was more like finding the talent and, and we had this great talent for a TV show. And it was new, and it was exciting. And you know, like Disney was like, We pitched it to a bunch of people because we have some connections and Disney's like, Hey, this looks great. So I flew to LA I think two or three times the first time I flew there to pitch it around and I had this we it was like it was wild. I mean, we were driving all over LA you know, going to these like Hollywood buildings and pitching this TV show and we pitched it to Disney and it was this crazy meeting was like lady was she was she's still there. She's really big person in Hollywood. And she just was like, she listened to her pitch for about two to three minutes. And then she just went off the rails being like kind of unusual for 45 minutes and we're like, whoa, what's going on? Right? Tried to kind of reel the meeting back into like, what what we're actually trying to pitch and she just would take it and go another direction. And then it was just as weird something was having an understand. But what I didn't know until after she actually really liked the show and wanted to pick it up. And so they A week later, they picked it up and they said, we want to produce, like sort of a pilot episode, like a mini pilot episode, they call it a super sizzler, which is like a mini pilot. And so we're like, great, this is it, we're gonna, we're gonna and we're gonna make it. And so, you know, I've been all over Europe filming and doing all this stuff. So we got all this great footage for it. And then, you know, spent a lot of spent like, maybe, I don't know, it was like eight months trying to get all the contracts, right with everything. So many people were involved, right, there was just it was like, endless. There's production companies, there is Disney, there is like the talent there was us. And so, you know, I was putting a lot of my time and energy into this, like over a year. And you know, I was editing it on my own time putting the sizzle together, like weeks and weeks and weeks and months. And then we flew back to LA to put it together to finish at a studio. And it was just like, I remember, we finished it. And I was just like, flew back home. And I was just totally burnt out. And then like they called About a month later and said, Yeah, we're not gonna pick this up. So just like it's spent all this money spent, like two years of my life trying to put this thing together, and then it just like, they're just like, any second, they're like, yeah, no, you know, and that's the way it goes. But I was pretty like devastated for a while, you know, I was doing some like, it was like, man, like, that was a huge blow. Like, I didn't really tell anyone for a while, like I didn't tell like my family for a couple months. Like I didn't tell anybody only like my business partner knew. And so I think at that point, I was just I remember listening to a podcast too, and somebody else was talking about failure. And you know, you're gonna hit rock bottom, and you need to build yourself back up. And I remember thinking is like, no, that's not gonna happen to me, this is good. The show we're gonna make it right. So. But of course, now it's like, you know, that happened. And you have to kind of pull yourself out of it, you can give yourself time to like, sort of mourn it and mourn the loss. But for me, it was great, because I started to really then focus and become more intent on Adventure photography and adventure filmmaking, right. And I remember, Alex drol had a bunch of courses out on an adventure photography, it's when just before the course craze kind of like took off to what it is now. And I just remember, I picked up one of his courses, and I was like, This is awesome. Like, I love this. And, you know, I applied some of those techniques. And I remember, I was still in Toronto, but I came out west to visit my sister here, here in the Canadian West, in the Rockies. And I was like, I'm gonna come out here and like, take some photographs of the Rockies do some adventure stuff, and like, kind of put these ideas into practice. And then I like, fell off my bike and broke my collarbone. And, but that would that really gave me a lot of time to just stop and like, reflect, you know what I mean? And like, the Disney thing just failed, and I just broke my collarbone. So it wasn't having a great year. But you know, I just, I just kind of, and so I had to take two months off to heal my shoulder. So I just stayed out in the west here for two months. And it was just like, that was that was kind of it for me as I need to move out West because I was you know, going going on hikes, taking pictures. And so this sort of, I guess, event of failure, you could say that started with the, you know, the show not getting picked up with Disney kind of transpired into like, Okay, well, now I can really focus my energy into shaping my intentions into going after adventure photography and adventure filmmaking, landscape photography, just like becoming more intentional with my time, right? And so that's a good, that's a good, I think, like, you know, I know, it's hard when you fail. Like, in that moment, if someone was telling me like, Hey, you can really use this it'd be it's, it's a really hard thing to hear. But I think like, I mean, you have to listen to it. At some point, you have to drag yourself out of those, those horrible moments and like, rebuild yourself. And I think those are great, actual opportunities to build, you know, and learn.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:00  You know, that's, that's really, really cool story. I love hearing that. I know, at that time, it's probably the worst time of your life, right. But as you can see, today, the failures is really what shape our success, right without those failure, like you say you wouldn't have moved to Canadian Rockies, you wouldn't have had that time to kind of just reflect and stay home and kind of pull yourself out of it. Now, one thing that I'm really interested in, I think a lot of people will get a lot of benefit out of this is that when you hit that rock bottom, or you know, at the place where it's not really a nice place to be and like you say, sometimes people are telling us like, Oh, this is learning experience, just be positive and you feel like, well, you know, try to be positive when you're here right? See how you go right.
Speaker 3  19:50  So you know that really you just got like, okay, it's easy for you to say,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:55  but what are some of the things that make a difference? words that make you you know what? It is a learning experience or you know what, this is how I'm going to rebuild, you know, my future based on this foundation? What are those different either events or advice or anything that have clicked in your head that make you that convinced you and help you pull yourself out of this hole very much and start going back on your road towards the dreams that you always been dreaming on? Yeah,
Pete O'Hara  20:33  that's a great question. I mean, it's really hard. Like we mentioned it in that moment to like, sort of emotionally pull yourself out of that moment. But you know, like, there's a, I think I heard Tom Tom Hanks saying interview the other days, like this too shall pass, you know, you're feeling low. This too shall pass you feeling on an incredible high, you know, this too shall pass. So I always try to remind myself like, This too shall pass. And then you know, it doesn't happen overnight. But just know that I try to always remind myself that everything is sort of figure out double, if that's even a word. You know what I mean? Like, there's, there's always something that you can do to improve like, the next day, like so you're in a low moment, okay, what can I do? Okay, tomorrow, I'm going to learn something new, you know what I mean, to get me out of this moment. So I'm, whether it be reading, like, I like reading business books, I like reading personal development books. And so there's always going to be, you know, the vantage of living now, in this time, there's so much information about there, there's so many books out there to help you that there's almost like no excuse, you know what I mean, if you're just sitting at home doing nothing, like there's, there's action that you can take to pull yourself out of those moments. And so I always remind myself that if I need to take a day off to be to feel crappy, and mourn whatever just happened, then I'll do that. But then, you know, the, then it's like, there's, there's baby steps of pulling yourself out of it. And you know, if you start something like now, just imagine, and you keep working on that every day, just imagine like, where you're going to be it's like those gradual steps, like kind of open up into something much larger many years down the road. Right. And so, and that's kind of what happened for me now. I'm like, you know, that was a that was like, a low moment for me get not having the show. get greenlit. But I mean, now I'm thinking like, well, what if the show did get greenlit, I wouldn't be here in the Rockies? You know what I mean? So you never know. Like, you're never gonna know. So it's just everything is figured out double. And, you know, it's just one step at a time and, like, you can make it you know, you can make it work.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:30  That is great advice. You know, like, figure out double, I think that that is such a difficult word to say. I think we say it enough, we can make it to, you know, the Webster Dictionary,
Pete O'Hara  22:43  figure. Yeah. I mean, even now, with my business, I mean, it's not, it's great. You know, we live in the Rockies now. And there's still, you know, there's still issues to deal with every day, there's still, you know, new clients to get or there's still like, you know, fostering or maintaining old relationships, there's things that don't go right. And so, you know, you still, you still have to either sell to figure things out, you still have to try new things, you still have to, you know, we're working in an industry that's constantly changing. And so, marketing is changing all the time. And so we're constantly learning, we're constantly evolving, and so just getting used to things not working out, and then you know, celebrating the things that do
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:23  know, 100% I love what you say there, how, you know, it doesn't matter what you do in whether it's your business or life, that's, that's the journey, it's never going to always be good, right? Like Tom Hanks, say, like, if it's good or bad, it will pass and you just have to take it one step at a time. And I think one of the most profound thing that I get out of that is how you can how you tell yourself that even at the worst time there is you have a choice. And I think a lot of people don't understand or don't realise that, right? They feel like, this is my entire life. And it's but you have a choice, you have the choice to stay in it, or you have a choice to get out of it. And that's exactly what you did. Right? And it takes you through the whole series of events, it takes you to where you are right now. And of course, we might never know where it can go in the future. But, you know, it sounds like that's something that you're, it's a life that you you love and you know, passionate about. So I think you did really amazing, you know how to deal with that. And that's such an inspiration. Now, I want to bring you back to your, your creative, you know, videography and photography now. It's always interesting. I mean, I started with photography, and I know how videography can be addicted as well, just like not Apple, especially when you're able to put this cohesive vision into like 30 minutes. Sorry, 33 And it's or one minute video or whatever it is, and you look back of it and just be like, Wow, that is incredible. Right? So, if you what are your story in videography, but you wanted to move to photography? So what are the motivation for you to? To explore into the photography?
Unknown Speaker  25:22  Yeah, yeah, it's
Pete O'Hara  25:22  a good question. I mean, I coming back to like the TV thing it was like, like I said, they told me to like practice photography. And so I did that. But I think what I realised in that as was like, wow, you can really, you can really create it pot one powerful image to tell a whole story versus like videography, is creating many images to tell a story. Photography is just one image to tell a story or if you can, like do a series of images, but just that aspect of like crafting a simple single image, I thought it was very powerful, and just just how I felt from the images and other people's images, you know, like watching watching other people's work, I think that's probably been in me since I was a child as well. Like, I remember flipping through, you know, the library at school, like National Geographic magazines, you know, like Time Magazine, Maclean's magazine here in Canada, like, we always subscribe to those. So I remember flipping through and seeing like, these images is powerful images that are just burning into your subconscious, right, like, and so I was always fascinated by that. And so I just feel like naturally for me, the videography and photography kind of went hand in hand in a way. And so again, it took me a while to figure out to shape what I really wanted my photography to be more like adventure landscape, like because I was working in TV, and I would get hired to do like, oh, Pete's like posting photography to his Instagram or Facebook, let's hire him to do the behind the scenes photos of like the show we're working on, right. And so I was like, oh, cool, like another avenue, I can make money in, right. And so then I was doing portraits, and I was doing weddings. And I was doing like, all this kind of different stuff. And then, again, coming back to that, like niching down or becoming more intentional of like, what speaks to you the most is like, I kind of started to shape that once I started travelling, the world I was working on it was funny, because I was I was working on a travel show, as a director of photography. So it was getting to that level, we were doing like travel Food Show and a travel travel show. And so I was doing the cinematography, but then you know, I'd have time to do the photography as well. And so it's just like, bang one after the other, right, like, and so I was like, I really liked doing this, I want to make this work for my career. And so it's slowly and I used to that was from Toronto, before I moved out west here. And as I mentioned, my sister lives out west here as well. And her and her husband are really big into adventures. And so when I would come to visit them all the time, you know, we've got backcountry skiing, we do all this kind of fun adventure stuff. And so that was starting to click, and I was taking pictures out there. So all of a sudden, this like adventure and the photography, they started to come and mash together a little bit more as like, oh, you can do this as a career, you know. And so that kind of, and then there's like, that's kind of exploded into this huge creative, as you know, as well, because you're in the same sort of realm as me where it's like, Astro photography, you know, climbing up mountains in the night to just capture the night sky and the mountains and all that kind of stuff. It's endless, right? So it's like, in my opinion, it's like a lifetime of work ahead of me.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:30  Yeah, that's, that's interesting how you say that, like a lifetime? alorica that's really cool. I like that. I like how you think about that. And, you know, there's this, I went out, hanging out with a couple of friends here in, in Bali, and we had this villa to ourselves, and we it's like more like a networking. So we meet like few different friends. And we're, like, chilling. And we're like just sitting there. And at one point, everything just went silent. And we're like, this is amazing, isn't it? It's like, Yep, and one of the things that's so like, it's still gonna stay with me until this day is that he said, You know what, everything that we did in our life, you know, all the bad all the failure is literally just an administration to get to this point. And that time, just like, that is so awesome. You know, like, you know, all the time that you put in all the failures, all the work, you know, and when you stand there on top of mountain, you know, that it's all worth it, that nothing else mattered, right. And that's, that's one of the things that I love about going up the mountain, but I can totally resonate with that. So yeah, totally. And so I love how, you know, you share how you go, you win portrait, you win when you win all of these different business model and that's something that I have gone through as well. But it's They're looking for a niche that's most profitable, you looking for a niche that you love the most. And you kind of head into that, I understand that, you know, that's not always going to be the case, sometimes you kind of need to fill it with other things into that. But I really love how you stay true to what you truly passionate about. So walk us through how does that work? Because I know like, for many people wedding is very profitable. And I can't or, I mean, if I if I get $1 for every time people tell me you should go into wedding photography makes a lot of money. I would be a millionaire by now. So walk us through what are you? What are your, your mindset there? What are your hardest the, your thinking process that get you out of that? You know what I need to make money versus you know what, I can make money while doing what I'm truly passionate about?
Pete O'Hara  31:04  Yeah, it's kind of like the million dollar question, right? Like, how do you make money while doing what you're passionate about. And to be honest, like, we're still, like when I say we are going to talk about Jenna in a bit, because like Jen is part of my story as well. And my I'm hers as well. So you know, to make money you do have to, you have to do jobs like that we did one wedding a while back, I have kind of steered away from weddings a little bit, although I was doing more weddings, in terms of is doing a couple photo weddings, but more videography, for weddings, which I still I did one in 2019 in Costa Rica. And it was amazing, you know, it was like travel. And they wanted to do this whole adventure thing. So it was kind of sticking in the realm with what I like to do still. And so I was like, yeah, we'll go to Costa Rica and film your five day wedding. And we'll go in the jungle and do adventures and all this stuff. So it was incredible. But even like, you still have to, like work on some stuff. To make money, you know, like, it's not going to be, you know, we're still kind of trying to, I guess you could say sculpt it into just doing exactly what we want to be doing. But I'm still trying to keep a percentage of myself open. Because what if I love figure out that I love doing this other thing, you know. And so we work with a lot of tourism boards. And so they'll send us out to do adventurous type shoots, but they will also be like, Hey, can you film this hotel or film this, you know, food, because that's a big part of tourism, right? Food and Beverage and places to stay. And so you still have to film a bit of a bit of that kind of stuff. And so I have all that experience, because I worked in reality TV I worked in I worked in like, you know, property shows. So I kind of have that portfolio. So that kind of helps me to produce quality work in that area. Because tourism boards, you know, it's not all just about the adventurer, right, you have to think about their needs and what they need, they don't just need your awesome banger shots, they need a couple of those, right, but they need a lot of other things to help promote their regions, right. So you have to be a little bit flexible and adaptable, right. So it's worked really well for us in that regard, because I have the photo aspect that I can do and the video aspect. And usually if you can find a client that really needs both of those, then you can kind of hit a home run, right. And so we've been able to do that a little bit over the last year with, with the various different clients and build really good ongoing relationships with them. And so and so yeah, and it's still, but still keeping that time to do what we love. Like we'll go out in the Rockies here, like I was out last week, and we were filming ice climbers, you know, we weren't getting paid for that, that might come back later. Because then I've got this portfolio of work that I'll now send into magazines, and you know, or that I could sell to the tourism, you know what I mean? So still going out just because you love going out, which is great because there's no pressure to create for a client you're just creating for yourself and then generally that actually pays itself off down the road anyways because people can see that you're passionate you're creating this unique image that you love and that's kind of like what what gets maybe hopefully not geo interested down the line or some other magazines right and so there's there's a lot of there's a lot of ways to make it work to fit within your lifestyle.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:18  That is incredible. And I love that last sentence that you say there where you know you look for possibilities and I love I learned a lot from what you just say there where you say you know, I I know what I like but I still keep a percentage of that open for anything that's that's the column and I think for most of us, we choose a path and we think that is it right we focus on that and this is how we can shape the rest of our life but as you mentioned earlier, we are in a constantly changing life what to say that you are good enough, you know what's what are you Who are we to say that this is our live and you know, it's not going to change in the future for the better, right? So I really enjoy that. So
Pete O'Hara  35:09  a small, small example of that as well, because so I sort of like said, I kind of want to niche myself to adventure, like landscape photography and videography, and that kind of stuff. And I never really thought too much about wildlife before I done a little bit, but it was very difficult to shoot as many wildlife photography, anyone know. But we actually worked with a client last year, Campbell River whalewatching out on Vancouver Island. And so they have like their boats, and they do well, they do like all kinds of amazing stuff. And so we ended up working with them doing like wildlife. And it was incredible. Like I was like, holy, I love wildlife. Now, I love shooting like we were filming grizzly bears, we were filming humpback whales, black bears, seals, dolphins, like it was just amazing. And so the video should be out really soon. I'm really proud of it, I'm really stoked with it, the clients really happy. So I'm really like, excited to share that video. And kind of also, I know, the area is kind of well known for wildlife, but I don't think people are fully aware of how the abundance of wildlife that it has there. So I'm really excited. Hopefully, the video will create some sort of awareness and get tourism driven to that area. Not too much, right? Because you want you know, you don't want to like over, you know, overdo the tourism. But I think they have enough room because it's Campbell River, and it's kind of a small area on Vancouver Island. And so just going back to that idea of keeping a little bit of that percentage open, because you can you never know what you could figure out and it's like, Man, I love shooting wildlife. It's it's a bit harder here in the Rockies to film wildlife. But, but if you get the opportunity to go somewhere, and now you have that experience, you know, it's always it's always worth keeping that those percentages open, because you never know where those opportunities will lead you to.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  37:03  Yeah, no, that's incredible. I love hearing that. And, you know, one of those things, is, you know, when I saw you going out to Nepal, and you know, working on this project, and you create this really, really amazing footage, to to share that awareness. So, do you want to talk a little bit about how that come about? And, you know, like, what is the intention behind that project? Yeah,
Pete O'Hara  37:33  for sure. So actually, that was a friend of mine reached out to me, he owns a company in Calgary and outdoor adventure company, and he had this client, he's like, Hey, I am not able to go on this trip. There's some scheduling conflicts or something. And so I thought about it for a while. And you know, it was for a really good cause it was for these is basically for Duchenne muscular dystrophy, and Duchenne is a very severe muscle wasting disease that happens in its genetic and it happens in children. And so the, the, the children, mostly boys, I think, too, but girls can get it as well. And so the children developed it, or they just have it from birth, basically. And, you know, the life expectancy can go up to 29 to 30 Years Old Navy, don't quote me on that, but it's just, you know, you're you become paralysed to have trouble breathing. So it's a very awful disease. And it's very, very rare. I think about only 20,000 in the US maybe have it and like maybe 300,000 worldwide, and so it's not a disease that's well known. So it's not getting a lot of attention, which means there's not a lot of research, which means there's not a cure on it. It's there's no treatment or anything. And so these fathers, their sons have Duchenne. And so they have the father, the one father's name is Jim or phone and he's the founder of a company or a nonprofit called jar of hope. Jar stands for James Anthony, ruffling, which is his son. And so they went, they tracked up to Everest base camp, to create awareness and money because there's a clinical trial, first ever clinical clinical trial now for a treatment for Duchenne. And they need I think, I think they need about 1.7 million. When the trip started, I think the trip raised about $200,000. And so I think, I think they're pretty close to raising their goal to get the clinical trial going right for the first ever treatment. And so, for me, I was kind of for a long, long time in my career. And this is the thing about photography and or any creative you get so self focused, because it's so hard, right? Like to make money to make a living. And so you kind of forget and as a child, I was like, you know, I want to work in a career where I can give back a little bit so just having that opportunity come up. I was like, Okay, this is a good opportunity. And it's like mixing my love with adventure and adventure storytelling. We're literally trekking to Everest base camp, making a mini The documentary along the way, and creating awareness for this cause and so I was, I was like, Yeah, I'm, I'm gonna do this. I'm like, it took me a while to say yes. So they need to figure out some logistics. But I was like, Okay, I'm fully now. And we went to Nepal and I didn't know any of these guys. They're like your typical all American, you know, guys, and I'm like, you're Canadian, kind of, like reserved, quiet Canadian. And so but it was like, they were the best guys ever. I love those guys, you know, we, we had such a great trip. It gots I learned so much about Duchenne and hearing their stories of like, their struggle with their families, and just being able to capture that on camera, and share share that with the world was a really, you know, I was honoured that I was able to do that, and help them with that, you know, and, and, like, I have the document or the sorry that I made a vlog, there's a documentary, and I made a vlog as well. So there's two. And so I kind of talked about this in the vlog is like, you know, my experience going to base camp is obviously different than theirs. Like, I got to have a lot of fun, you know what I mean? And like, and enjoy the trip and their purposes. You know, like, they're constantly thinking about their sons, right? Like, they're, they're not really there to have a good time. I mean, it's hard, you kind of have to find that balance, you still have to live your life a little bit, but they're their motivations are very clear. And so for me, it was really interesting watching that and their motivations and just, you know, we all kind of came away from that trip with a lot of gratitude at the end of it, you know, and it was, it was an incredible experience and being able to see Mount Everest, you know, like the tallest mountain in the world is a bucket list thing to be able to experience and be able to do that and capture an image and give back along the way was I just feel so lucky to be able to have been part of that journey.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  41:47  Yeah, wow, that's incredible. I know, you know, like, it's sometimes it's hard to look back and give, like you say, because often we're so sucked into how to survive, right? And it's, it's such a it's such a tough life, because it's not only acids, everyone else. And I guess, you know, I love what you do there. Because if we always if we if everyone only focused on our own survival, then who are we as human right, our humanity would pretty much disappear. Right? And what you did, there is just absolutely incredible. You know, I think sharing the story of bringing awareness of this, this condition that is very rare, I actually really love how you create the blog. So I haven't really watched a blog yet. So I'd love to hear that. Because, yeah, like when you say that, I think that's very true. Like, it's really easy for us to think about life about adventure about travel, in our own view, but sometimes, you know, some people just maybe you know, a friend of a friend or you know, friend of a family that we may know, are struggling with whatever it is, it could be physical health or mental health. So I think it's really important for us to just, you know, keep an eye on that and, and have that sort of gratitude, like you say, you know, come back with, with, with a sense of thankfulness, that things are the way they are in our life instead of asking for more. So thanks a lot for sharing that. Now. One thing that I'm really interested in is, when you go on a trip there, I know, you cannot touch a little bit, right. But when you go on a trip, you have the purpose of you know, creating awareness, you know, capturing all this stuff. Now, at the same time. It's something that you never done before, I never tried in the base scam you like you say you don't really know them all that well, like, you know, you kind of just get acquainted. So how do you how do you show or how do you tell the story, the emotion within your video and photography, in order to capture all this sense emotion that, you know, they may trying to share with with the rest of the world? Yeah,
Pete O'Hara  44:17  it's a great question. And I think what really, really helps me with that was my experience in television, because when we were working in reality TV shows, were constantly with new people every week and not just like reality TV. I was doing like corporate videos, I'm constantly meeting other people. And so you have to like have conversations you have to want get them to warm up to you not just to your camera, but to you as a person right and so it's oddly become like my job to do that. You know what I mean? So it's like, it feels quite natural, just to like, I mean, it's like it's essentially kind of easy, just like, it's like going to the coffee shop with someone you never met before and just starting a conversation. And for, you know, a project like going to bed camp were with each other for like, I think it was like 12 days under these really strenuous hiking conditions like you get to know each other really, really quickly right? There, you know, you're walking through rain, you're walking through snow, that you're going up in high elevation, you're losing your breath. And so you get to know each other really quickly. And so everybody gets vulnerable really, really fast. And then they start to open up to you. And I think, you know, that plus having the, the sort of knowledge that we're all on the same page wanting to share this story with the world, and like Jim and Dylan, their sons have Duchenne. And they have, they had an incredible willingness and understanding how important it is to share this story. They were vulnerable with me, they opened up to me, you know, they, they showed me some moments that were, you know, like, their, that were quite emotional. And they and they were perfectly okay with that, because they knew it was going to help the story and help help the, you know, ultimately help their sons. That's what they're there to do. And so, you know, I was just able to capture these amazing moments, I was able to put the camera on them, ask them questions, and they even came to me sometimes, and were like, Hey, I really got something to say, here. I was, like, great. So just held up the camera, and they were very open about their journey with their sons, and like, why this trip to Basecamp was so important to them. And so, you know, it all came together really nicely, I thought, and, you know, I was happy to, like, we made a film, and the film should be coming out soon, it's a bit about half an hour. And then I asked if I could also create a vlog just like sort of, like my point of view of the trip, because I'm not in the film, right. It's just like, the footage. And so I just wanted to share, like, sort of my point of view, and I think they really appreciate that as well. Because, again, like, it's such a rare disease. So just getting that message out there to as many people as possible. They were, they're very happy that I made the vlog and was able to share it. And so and I likewise, for me as well, I was like, really happy to, to share that vlog. And, you know, I think it was probably like, it was definitely one of the most meaningful things I feel like I've created, you know, because I haven't eyes we talked about, like, it made me realise, like, I want to do a lot more of this, I want to use my skills of what I have to sort of help people. And that doesn't have to always be financially Right. Like, I can use my skills as a photographer, as a cinematographer to tell a story to help people. And so I want to allot time, if I can, every year to do a project like that. And so, yeah, I'm just, I, you know, and it's one of those things as a kid, I remember, like flipping through, I think I can't remember because it was a kid, right, but I just remember seeing like a NatGeo, or something. And it was photographers. And they talked about, like, drawing their lens to these issues in the world that needed to be heard. And I really like that really stuck to me as a kid. So to now be able to sort of take that and do that, as an adult, I just think is is really rewarding.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  48:00  You know, that that is so powerful that you share that. And I think if there is anything that the listeners or, you know, photographers out there can take out of this is that typography and videography is such an important and such an essential thing in our life. Right. And for artists, especially photographers and videographers, a lot of times we think about it the other way, where you know, the stuff that we put out is not valuable. And, you know, that's where a lot of the starving mindset kind of come in. But what you say there is just so profound, how, you know, our photos, and our videos are the things that tell the story. And without a story, you can't move people in motion, you can't, you know, raise a fund for a certain research, you can't convince people to travel to, you know, a certain part of the world and you can't express love or connection between two different people. And this is I think it's really important if there is any photographers who feel like, you know, I don't know, like my photo is not great. Like, it doesn't matter how good or bad your photo is. But if you compare it to the fact that people don't have any of those photos, it's a world of difference without photo, our our world are boring, we probably want to travel because we don't know what's out there. We probably don't have to travel because we think what we have is the best thing in the world. So, you know, I really love you what you say there. And one thing that I'm interested in, right because you're a photographer and a videographer. How does the storytelling shift between the two because in video you have a little bit more time you could you know set the scene you can create a certain movement a certain dialogue a certain Um, voiceover or whatnot, but in a photo, that's it, like, whatever one shot, you take, it has to tell the whole story, right? So I'm really interested for someone who come from videography, right from creating a story within a longer length of time. How do you transfer that into a photography? And how can you create the best, most impactful story within one frame?
Pete O'Hara  50:30  As a great question, I feel like I have to ask myself that every time I'm shooting is like, okay, how can I make this work within one frame? I think for video, and I'm always experimenting, video is obviously it depends what you're what you're doing, like the average trip was 11 days. And so you know, in terms of making an impact with that video, it was about, you know, you have your typical, like, you're covering your scenes of us hiking to base camp, you know, it's exciting, it's exhausting, it's raining. So you have all that the typical adventure stuff. And then it's sort of sprinkled with, I did interviews every day, at the sort of at the beginning and sort of at the end of every day. And then I would ask them questions throughout the trip, and they would give me these moments of, you know, very, I found very impactful moments of them talking about their sons. And so the story is, we're going to base camp to raise awareness for Duchenne muscular dystrophy. And then you sprinkle that with the sort of, you get to know them along the way, right. And that's like, Jim talking about his son very emotionally, you know, like, I was almost like crying, holding the camera listening to him, because their sons are dying, you know. And so and Dylan, same thing, he's just like, there's a moment in the vlog to where it's like, my favourite moment, he just totally opens up. He's like, you know, he's like, you know, some parents worry about how their kids are going to do in sports, but he's like, the only thing I can really think about is just like, how fast can we fund these clinical trials, so that, you know, my son can have an extra year or two. And so just getting those moments on camera, like them saying those moments, and then, you know, using those moments, that sort of voiceover to tell a story as they're walking into base camp, that sort of like, that's what I love about film, it's this whole thing of all these, like, you know, like amazing, either sound bytes, or video or music all mixed in together over either 510 minutes, or, you know, in commercial film, like an hour and a half, right. And so films like this whole other other beast, you're still, you know, framing images and framing shots. But I think the emotions are hitting you on a different level, because you're like, you're hearing people, you're seeing people, there's like sound to it. You know, there's there's movement. And so, you know, that's just, that's another thing that's like, endless, you can work with that within a life like, you can work to improve that through your whole life. Right? So I love that. And then photography, there's no music, there's no sound, it's just an image, right? But it's a still image. And so you have to kind of think about, well, what makes a really impactful still image and so and, you know, I'm always experimenting for me, it's like, either, it's an incredible landscape landscape that takes my breath away, whether it's the auroras over the vest, or horn and Iceland's, you know, this huge panoramic shots that I took. Or if it's like we were last week in an ice cave, and we had an Ice Climber climbing up to the top of the ice cave. And, you know, the fact that it was at blue hour or Twilight hour, it was dark. So a lot of the darkness overtakes the frame, and you just see kind of your attention is more drawn to the light of the head torch. To me, that's like, it's hard to put it into words, but it's really impactful. And it's really powerful. Because you're just looking at this one image, maybe you're wondering, like, wow, where the hell are they like, his like, is way deep into the back country? Or like, what led up to that moment? And so, yeah, it's just, I think they're both very powerful tools. And video takes a lot longer, but it's just as powerful and photo maybe sometimes it can take just as long you could be out there for months. But sometimes it's just this one photo can just express an entire thing, right? And so, yeah, I just totally addicted to them both. And actually, the k photo that I was just talking about, we did do some, it's hard, right? Because you're in the fields. And you have the videographer mindset, and you have the photographer mindset, right? And so usually, usually when I'm going out into the backcountry on our own in the Rockies, I'm always in the photography mindset, because work is more video related, right? And so I'm usually doing photos just on my own, but we always try to capture I always try to make a point to capture some video aspects of something. You know what I mean? Just because For over a year or two, I can piece together a whole story. But actually the so I was in photo mindset going out to the ice cave to film these are to shoot these climbers. But we did one of the climbers is also a photographer and a videographer. So he we're filming little pieces along the way of the whole trip, right. And so we put together the video pieces of us getting to the ice cave, you know them tying up the ropes, and then climbing up. And then we also put the images in the film as well. So like you have this whole mix, and it all comes together in the end. So you put all these ingredients in the barrel and mix it all up, and you have this film with some images in it. So that's a good, I think example of how I kind of utilise both. But I will say that, depending on the mindset, I mean, it's hard to do both right. So either, if I'm more in the video mindset than the photos will kind of suffer a little bit or take more of a backseat and vice versa. I mean, the photo mindset and the video kind of takes a backseat because they do kind of require your full attention at all times. You know what I mean, to be able to craft the perfect image.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  56:03  I love how you say that because it took me a long time until I realised that I was like, Yeah, I can fly my drone and take photos like now. Like, I always want to take photo, I want to do time lapse on apply drone is like no, you just have to like focus on one and everything else will suffer like you say and you know, focus on the thing that truly mattered most within that particular time. So yeah, wow, that's, that's just incredible. I love hearing that perspective from a videographer, that kind of shift into photography instead of you know, the other way around. Because I feel like most people are, you know, their journey is, is the opposite where they start with photography, and then they get into videography. I know that's, that's what's the case for me. So yeah, really, really interesting to hear that. So amazing. Thank you very much. Well, we, you know, it's been an amazing conversation. I can't I can't believe it's been an hour like you chatted, and it's literally felt like it's 15 minutes. But it's been an incredible story. You know, thank you a lot. Thanks a lot for sharing that story, especially the height that you did for the Shem. Disease. Oceania, just can muscular dystrophy. Yeah, the Shen muscular dystrophy? And it's, it's, I think, when you say that, when you tell them how, you know, most parents are worried about the are they going to be getting a or are they going to be good in sports? Well, you know, they all they care about is how they can do something so that their son can live just that little further, this is such an a grounding, worse, you know, that you share that man, like, we are so lucky to be here in our life, especially if you don't have any disease, you you can go anywhere in the world. You know, like, I mean, you can walk, you don't have a problem with that, man, we are lucky. And I think a lot of people just don't, like take that for granted. So
Pete O'Hara  58:14  really, truly, I mean, just to be able to I was like reading a book the other day, and it's just like, just think about it, like, just think about it, like, even anyone, like not, there's people in the world right now who are just focused on survival. But if you think back to even your ancestors, like it was all just about survival. So just being grateful that we even have the ability to ponder our, our, our purpose, you know, or for me, it's like for our ability to just go after a career or just my love of photography and cinematography. I'm just able to do that. So just as hard as it is just be grateful that I'm allowed to be able to do that. Because, you know, there's a lot of people that aren't allowed to do that. They they're just purely focused on survival. So I tried to tell myself that every day as well just be really grateful for the just the opportunity to be able to even try this for a career and as a life, you know,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  59:08  yeah. Wow. That's, that's, that's really important. And that just gives me goosebumps there that you say, you know, just, it's like, like you say, it's an opportunity that is presented to us, and it's up to us whether to take it or not. So, thanks a lot, Pete. You know, for your stories, your wisdom, I really enjoy that. Now, one thing that I always ask the guests in the podcasts is that if there is one advice, whether it's photography, or live advice, or whatever other advice that you have, that you could give your younger self or the audience out there, what would that advice be?
Pete O'Hara  59:44  Yeah, it's a great question. I think I might have like two little ones. One of the ones I think like in photography, I would say that I would have told my younger self, and I think it's kind of boring, but I think it's kind of important to hear is like, we don't really I was always focused on the living in the moment for today and stuff. And so you don't really focus a lot on like saving money and all that kind of stuff. But learning the business, learning how to save getting all that done earlier, the sooner you do that, the better to allow you more freedom later. And so I learned that a little bit later. And so I would say I regret because I mean, I've had such amazing experiences, but just having that information a little sooner. So if you're hearing this, and you're younger than that means you something to look into, that will help you and will ultimately get you more freedom in your career down the line is, I think, a good piece of advice that I learned in my life. And, you know, there's so much information out there that you can like Google it, there's books to help you. And so I think I think people can figure that as everything is figured out a bowl, and they can figure out that aspect quite easily. And then one thing that I read today somewhere, and I really think this is important, too is if you find yourself like in a really busy schedule, and we kind of touched on this in the podcast a little bit too is like, allow a little bit of a percentage of time or just a space in your mind to or in your schedule. Like give yourself an opportunity to explore something new, whether it's in your career, or, or whatever it is career or schedule. So for instance, like I said, we had this opportunity to sort of dive more into wildlife. And that turned out to be an incredible thing. Or even if it's just a schedule thing, like if you have a fully booked summer, try to squeeze in a week where nothing is scheduled just to potentially allow something to happen, right? You know what I mean? Like something spontaneous, because that spontaneity will you don't you don't know where that will lead you to. And for instance, for me, like, what the impetus for moving out to the Rockies was like, I kind of had this drive to come out here. But I was working this full time job and TV and I just decided to leave the job. Like I found someone to replace me to come out to the Rockies for the summer, right and just allowing myself to have that freedom. Basically, I came out here and that my girlfriend Now Janet, who's also photographer, you know, we went on all these hikes and it just basically just allowing that time and that window of opportunity to exist basically like I felt like I opened up the door in my life was like right there, right, I met Jenna, we're going out together. And you know, we're building our lives together in this Rockies. So if I didn't allow for that window of time to happen, if I had chosen to stay comfortable, and earn the money that summer, I wouldn't be where I was today. And so just I think giving yourself those windows of opportunity to explore something can lead you into something incredible.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:02:46  Ah, that is such a great advice. Such a great advice. I mean, if we look at the amount of people who are successful in this world today and how they find or how they discover that path of life through travel, or to try new things or true, accidental, you know, things that they never thought it would have, lead them to where they are, I think this is a really, really important lesson to learn. And I love how you mentioned about setting yourself up for success as well as you get older. And, you know, I mean, for me like it, I that's all I care about in the early age, and I thought you know, in, because that's how I brought up, right? It's like, Well, you gotta save, you gotta save and then you retire, and then you can enjoy all this, right? So, I always I used to always think that it was a waste of time for me to do that. But you know, now that I when I left my career in engineering and you know, starting over, that really helped me out when when I don't have things coming through, right, I could I could help me to through all the all the tough time of not having income and all that. So it's I think it's really good advice, especially if you don't know what, how to invest or how to save, you know, at the very least start learning and you know, start doing that even just a little bit. So amazing advice be Thank you very much. Now, you know, you have amazing work you have beautiful photography, as well as videography and you know, how can people learn more about you? And how can people support you as well?
Pete O'Hara  1:04:35  Oh, that's a good question. Support sports hard like um, well, you can go to my website, Silver Fern productions.ca. I put a lot of my work onto there a lot of the video work a lot of the photography work, and I'm just in the process of revamping the whole thing, but it's still still live online there. You can find me on Instagram Pete underscore O'Hara and Twitter Pete O'Hara photo and YouTube, I have a YouTube channel with Jenna called adventures with Pete and Jenna. And the Everest vlog that we were talking about is on there as well. And so I'll eventually have, I took my print shop down for the moment because I'm in the middle of rebuilding it. And so I mean, you could do me if you want to print or you can wait for the print shop to be live should be live in the next couple of months. If you want to support me, or you can just go to the YouTube subscribe, just tag along on the adventures. And hopefully you enjoy them.
Unknown Speaker  1:05:31  That's fantastic.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:05:33  I love your ear, you guys go on some of the most, the coolest adventures and, you know, if you haven't checked out Pete's work, please do check them out, because you take them to a world where again, like I said, felt like it's not in this world anymore. You know, it's felt like it's somewhere else. So going on your adventure itself. It's just, you know, it really fed my framing for winter. Because here in Bali, unfortunately, we don't have unless it's on the cocktails.
Pete O'Hara  1:06:07  Well, I'm happy to hear that if I can make people fall in love with winter, then that makes me happy, man.
Unknown Speaker  1:06:13  That's awesome. All right. Well,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:06:15  thanks a lot for you know, for your time and for being here and sharing your story as well as your journey. And we can't this hopefully you get a lot of that. And it's been an incredible storytelling. You know, from P Gocek. His profile out, look at his YouTube channel, and the beautiful videography that he does. It's just absolutely beautiful. But with that being said, if you haven't subscribed yet, do subscribe on the podcasts if you want to hear more story like this. And if you have other artists that you'd love to hear in this podcast, please do let me know. So that I could reach out to them. But without being said, b Thank you very much for your time here. And it's been a great conversation. And hopefully we have you back here one day and chat on a different things.
Pete O'Hara  1:07:10  Yeah, might have some new failures to talk about and what I learned from them. Thanks again for having me, Stan, this was so much fun. And I really appreciate you doing this podcast for photographers. And I want to say too, that I really love your work. And it really both Jen and I it transports us as well. I mean, your work is incredible. Your Astro photography is phenomenal. And I just I always love looking at your work. It's just it's so beautiful. And thank you for having me and thanks for sharing this time. Thanks.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:07:40  And I appreciate that very much. Thank you. Alright, well we can do is, you know, with that being said, I'll see you guys next week and we have someone exciting next week, which I don't know who's gonna be in there yet, but it's gonna be exciting nonetheless.
Unknown Speaker  1:07:53  I'll see you guys later. Bye.
 

Ep 55 - How Ina Grischau seek uncomfortable path to find and experience to find a disappearing culture during her travel

Hey Wicked Hunters, I'm excited to share another week of podcast-sharing artist journey and the inspiration behind their experiences. 
This week we have Ina Grischau. She is an artist from Germany, she creates fine art photography through solo off-grid travels in search of connections and stories.
On a journey to Nepal in 2015 she got a brand new camera and had pictures of towering mountains and secluded towns in her mind. The connection woven in those 5 weeks is influencing her work today and has formed her as a creator, explorer and storyteller. A few months later she continued to search for the perfect shot in a two-year world travel around central Asia, south and east Asia, Hawaii and West Coast Canada.
 
You can find more of her work on:
https://bio.site/inagrischau
 
e podcast:
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Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com  
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For those of you who want to see connect with Stanley Aryanto, you can go to the following:
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Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast in the comment below and subscribe
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Transcription:
Ina Grischau  0:00  For a whole week journey just to go to reindeer herders in nowhere, like literally in nowhere, I needed to take a horse at the end for multiple days to visit those people. And it was like one of the best experiences on my journey in Mongolia. So,
Ina Grischau  0:20  but to experience this kind of, of outstanding things, you need to do outstanding stuff, you, you know, you need to be aware that there is no comfortable that lighting for you. Be happy if the ground is soft, kind of. Yeah, and
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:48  Hey Wicked Hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artist journey and how photography given us hope, purpose and happiness. And today we have someone who you will enjoy, you know, listening to she have so much positivity, so you have so much energy. And actually, one of the reason that I want her to come into the podcast is not only because of her photography, but also because this energy. So in our Welcome to the Art of Photography podcast, you know, I really appreciate having you here.
Ina Grischau  1:25  Thank you for this lovely introduction. And thank you so much. I can give it right back to you. I told you before, like, I love your energy, too. And this was one of the things where I straightaway said yes, let's do it. And I'm so excited about the recording right now. Yeah, let's do it.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:46  Ah, yeah, no, that's fantastic. You know, like, I see a lot of your work. And there is a lot of different things that I want to ask them as you and I know, you have this top secret project coming up as well, that you've been working on. And I'm gonna say like, it's, it's incredible. I am very intrigued when you give that introduction, but we will not going to reveal it just yet. Because it's top secret. And we'll see right, people who stay till the end, I can get the benefit and the bonus of getting to know that. But first of all, before we even get started into the top secret project, which we're not going to talk about. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Right? How, how do you you know who you are? And how do you get into photography?
Ina Grischau  2:39  Sure. So my name is in Angular. So I'm from Germany, or German born? I'm also living in Germany again. Like, how did I got into photography? It's like a very difficult question. Because like many of us experience like, in their childhood already, like picking up a camera, you know, like, the film cameras pointed to just go and take some pictures. I remember that I did that, like kind of a lot. And when I compare it, especially in retro perspective to my friends, back then, I was always the person doing the most pictures and finding angles or like faces, you know, in my friends with nobody else that like, I got a film back. And usually the feedback I got was like, how did you do that? You know, like, and, yeah, at this point, you know, you never realise that you have like, a certain kind of way to see the world around you, or like to capture it in a different way. And it's kind of gets got a little bit lost. Like I always have this passion and the love for photography, but I never like was, oh, I should be become a photographer. You know, like the step was never, never really there. Like it was never a question or something. So, and on top, sorry, it just and I'm tall. I'm very rgsl Like, I'm drawing along. I'm painting and stuff like this. So people know me from that side as well. And they know like, I'm kind of this creative person. So they're like, oh, yeah, this photography, this goes hand in hand. So at one point, like I think the breaking point was 2015 when I was going to having a bigger travel, it was my first time visiting Nepal. And I didn't have any plan and there was like this big earthquake as well there and it was like kind of a messy travel travel as well. So what I did was a board especially for that in camera. It was the iPhone 6000 from Sony, so I didn't have much money back then. So I bought this camera, but I bought a good lens actually about the size visit and went over there and actually my first kind of travel photography Like, over there. So I did like every everything of photography I did took, like landscape photography, I did, like real travel things, and so on and so on, like I really experimented around. And then I came back. And I was like, I remember I was looking at this pictures. And the first thing I noticed was, I was so disappointed. You can't really imagine I looked at this pictures and had like some in my mind. And I saw from the back screen of my camera, I was like, This must be a really good picture. And I opened it up on my laptop, I was like, Oh my God, what did you do? You know, I made the first bigger mistakes with a mirrorless camera, I had a lot of tasks on my sensor, I had a lot of tasks on my lens, and so on and so on. And you make all those mistakes. And, you know, like, you don't have the right shutter and aperture at the first time you you go out and take the camera with you. So I saw immediately something is wrong with my photography on it like a technical kind of ways. And I started working on it. And yeah, 2017 I went back to Nepal on a longer journey. Actually, that's when you didn't start it in Nepal, it started in, in Russia, in Ekaterinburg. And from there I took a train over to all the way to the Lake Baikal. And then I went over to Mongolia to down to China, Beijing. And then from Beijing, I went all the way to Lhasa or by train, and then I flow over actually to Nepal again, and stayed there three months. And on this long, long, long journey, which is like, sponsored TOEFL. I was actually photography for the house, taking pictures, to all the things that are happening around me and I drifted more and more in the direction of taking landscape photography. And yeah, actually, that was the stone which got rolling at that point, you know, and from from there on, I still had one and a half years more, which I travelled around the world. And then I came back here to Germany and settled kind of in again. And then focus more on becoming like a better photographer. And I would say this year, especially in the beginning of this year, when I entered the NFT space, big drift has happened once more. Like back then when I went on a travel and I went outside of the of my own world. And I started photography things, which were not normal to me, let's say it like this, like he don't regularly stand in a desert in Munich. Right? So I discovered that through the NFT space, and the people I met here that there is like a lot of things around me and a lot of beautiful spots, which I can take pictures of. And there is like something which hold me back before that time. I was I'm not a big fan of over run and over. Yeah, expose the places, you know, like, the hinter Z, for example. Or, like, there's not only Hinton z, but there are like so many spots around here in which are like, just so I I know a gentleman very, I don't know how to translate an English, but like, there's so much so many people went there and took exactly the same picture or like so slightly different. So that I didn't want to go there and do just a slightly different picture. I was never seeing the sense in this kind of thing. And with this year, i i and we went to many places of those, which I just mentioned and I took pictures which were slightly different than other people take it and I found joy in it. It's so crazy but you go to these places and they are amazing. So the reason why so many people take pictures there is because these places do have some kind of magic and ad right they are just beautiful. You go there and you're just like wow, and then you can you can immerse yourself in it and then you start taking pictures and then you try to make your own fingerprints on this kind of picture. So it's it was really challenging but there I learned a lot not on the technical side but more on the creative side to find my own voice in pictures. And I would say I'm I did learn Hello, I'm so happy and thankful to find this NFT space to actually have learned that sides, you know, like before that one was missing. And I don't say I didn't have a creative voice before that I can more directed knowingly in a certain area I am in. So before I was in an area and I took a picture, but now I know like, Okay, I have like this kind of story I want to tell through that place or from that place, and then I can direct that now, way better and way faster. Yeah. Sorry, very long
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:37  text. No, no, thanks for sharing that. And, you know, we have a really similar like, start as well, like, I started in 2018. And the reason why I got into photography was the same thing I went into, I think I went to Euro. And I look at, I took a whole bunch of shots. And when I got back home, I was like, wow, like, not a single good shot. Right, you know, you just crawling to to your camera and your phone. Of course, most of most of the photo that I took that time was on the phone. So yeah, that was that was really the turning point of my photography in your and how I got immersed in photography, but I really draw a parallel in. And, you know, I now I know why, like, you know, a lot of Nepal photos, and you're very connected with Nipah. Because of that reason. I mean, yes. You know, to be duly honest, that was the other thing that really draw me into your work is that, you know, I just returned from Annapurna Circuit this year, earlier this year. So when I saw an Apollo it was like, wow, like, you know, that's cool. Like I said, that's the place that I haven't gone yet, but I want to be in, but you know, like, you have this, you have this energy, right? And you you I know that photography, given that energy to, to be passionate and to be energetic and to be positive. So, you know, I want to know, what is the most excited things about photography that make you you know, the way you are today? Oh, that's a difficult question. That question, by the way, so.
Ina Grischau  12:22  So, how did I would say that photography is a way of speaking or showing other people what I see and what I experience, especially, like, lots of my journeys, especially the very long one was also very lonely one no, like, I left behind all my friends and all my family, like, for two years, I didn't, I didn't see many of those people and only, like, some parts online. And it's, I think when I take those pictures, it's, it's like, they are there with me, like, at least in a retros perspective, I can show them this places and kind of live through it with with the feedback of them, you know, and even if they're not there in that moment, it's, it's maybe a way for me to actually still have them with me and, and like at least in a in a later state. And I also noticed that from for me, especially colours and light, I mean light is always a topic and colours, those sorts of kinds and sounds kind of to dairy. But for for me colours need to look kind of tasty. That sounds a little bit funny, but it's it's like it is it's like the emotion I need to have an Asiya colour, it needs to look like I want to eat it. Okay, it's very strange to say that, but I noticed also there is like something when, when different, you know, like taste and looking and hearing and stuff, it can like kind of overlap. And I think colours in pace kind of overlap for myself. So it's like I'm seeing a cake or something in front of me. So if a colour doesn't look like a cake, it's not good. And I'm still tweaking it a little bit. So I kind of like it very much. And yeah, it sounds funny, but it's where I want to go. And then again, the places I'm capturing is actually to kind of bring people with me and let them look through my own eyes. So that's a kind of my drive for my photography.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:51  That is interesting. You must love food, aren't you? What do you like food so much that you want to make sure that the photo look like okay, it's
Ina Grischau  15:03  really no yeah, how to how to otherwise say that, you know, it's, it's a very weird thing. Like sometimes you know, when you scroll through your timeline in Twitter, and you're just like stopping at one picture, and it can be like that you say, oh my god, this light is amazing or like this composition. But mostly for me, it's like, wow, this colour looks tasty it's very weird. Colour I understand that, you know, but no, it's not exactly like a cake, but it kind of brings up this emotion.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:39  That is cool. Yeah, that's really interesting. No one ever explained to me that way about photography. So I really enjoy that a really fresh now, you know, like you you share a story and I can't remember. Yeah, it was in this one. I was like, I can't remember if you share it before we started the recording or after but anyway, you started you tell the story about you went to Himalaya and going to the what's the name? There is a name right. The from the one that go from Russia to China? Is that the sea Berean or
Ina Grischau  16:14  the Trans Siberian train? Yeah, that was Russian way. So you have the different one did you I know I did started as a Trans Siberian train. This is actually from the longest ride you can take. It's from St. Petersburg, Moscow. And it has been Borg and so on and so on up to floody, Bosco Vladivostok, which is on the far end of Russia to the east side. So you have like this long, long way and take one week, day and night drive all the way from Moscow to Vladivostok. And I took that train but only to Lake Baikal and from Lake Baikal, I take another. So the there is a connecting train, actually. But it's the Mongol train then, which goes down to Mongolia, in Ulaanbaatar. And from hula matar, you can go from there. Also, with the Mongolian train, obviously, you Chinese train line already to Beijing. And this train connection is very, very interesting, because on the border of Mongolia and China, you need to change the wheels of the train. So they lift in the middle of the night, it's so funny in the middle of the night, they just bring you into like kind of a big warehouse, they lift up the whole train, so they separate the train into the back ends, then the waggons go into the warehouse, and then they lift up all the waggons. And then they remove all the wheels and put new wheels on there. It's now about the width of the of the wheels on the left, and the right side is different in Russia than to China. So the need to change it on the border
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:11  is hilarious.
Ina Grischau  18:13  Yeah, it's hilarious. Especially because there is like one stop before the border in Mongolia. And they take your passport in the middle of the night on this train station. So there is somebody and he's collecting all the passports so he has like a big stack of passports in his in his arm and he's just like yours on top. And then he's exiting the train in the middle of the night in nowhere. And we you continue to drive and then you are in this warehouse and they change the wheels and you still don't have your passport. You just like do I get it back. Get it back, and then reattach the whole train and then arrive out again. And this guy is going through the train and he's like just giving you your passport. Just like I was really like, here's your passport back. And you have the visa stamp inside. It's hilarious, hilarious. I can do that.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:10  Why didn't experience you must be what, you know, one thing that I'm interested to hear is that it's it's such an experience. You know, I I kind of I used to hate travel and only when I you know I only found travel a little bit late in my life and I you know, finally fell in love with it. And that's what got me into photography. But I used to hate travel. Right. And I think you're very fortunate and lucky to be able to explore and go to through all of that experience. You know, in your life. I think there's only a very small number of people that will have the opportunity to do that or the courage to do that. Right. So I'm wondering, right? What what goes through your mind? Like, what makes you want to do that. And you know, what I want you to share as well as like, along the way, what are some of how does your photography affect the way you travel the way you see things and the way you interact with, you know, the your surrounding the environment as well as the people.
Ina Grischau  20:27  Yes. So that's, that's super interesting. So the drive why I'm going out, is indeed, like the exploration. And I think exploration in photography is a big main thing for my photography, to like, yeah, what I'm doing when I'm doing it, you know, like, so the images said something very, very, very important, you know, like, you need to have the courage to go or you need to be fortunate enough to go in, I know that, you know, when I'm going out and travel, and especially when I did a very long travel, or I'm going again, for like, a few months into, like, ever. It's a big financial step, as well, I'm this finance thing is, so big hurdle, you need to actually act to take it every time you do that. And photography is not cheap hobby you're having like photography, or cameras are evolving all the time, you want to have in your model, you want to have a different lens to experience, like different kinds of angles, or just to capture a different picture you're dreaming of, you know, we are creatives, we want to actually have all the tools, but you just can't have all the tools, except you're like very fortunate to afford it. And so, going out to explore, I think, most of the time of what I tried to do is to handle or to go with everything I'm having, and to still be like, happy about it to have it, you know, like, it's like I the alpha, I had the Alpha 6000 A very, very long time because I couldn't afford another lens, I was like in struggling was like get another lens or do allocate another camera body. But if I got another camera from our body, I need to get other lenses again. So every every photographer knows this game, you know, like, you always have to think about it. So if you can't upgrade, you go out there. And you are also to doing the financial step to go out there and you fly somewhere and you're experiencing something there and it's all cost money. And then you're there and you want to take a picture as you're dreaming off. Like for example, when when I go when I got hiking to the Everest base camp over three high passes. So there was it's not the regular track it's, it's a very longer track and be higher track too. And also, I went in from Jiri. So it was a 28 day hike. And in this time, I had three batteries. Me, I had one lens, and one camera body was made because I didn't have a porter and I didn't have a guide. So there was nobody helping me to carry my stuff, everything I had in this 28 days was in my backpack. And this is a very big limitation you have as a photographer, so you need to work with only one lens and only one camera body but to tell you something when you're up there and I think you know this kind of feeling because you do similar kinds of pictures and you'd have similar experiences I believe that when you're up there, your brain is kind of have that you just don't have enough oxygen to have a good clear thought. So actually getting out the camera and taking a picture it takes so much effort and so like take a good picture takes even bigger effort. So like I took try I tried to trick myself so what I did was like I had my big puffy jacket and I had like a little back in the front of my jacket. And then I put the camera inside and there again my limitation on this point was actually good thing the camera was small the camera body of the Alpha 6000 is super tiny small. The lens itself I had was so I could have gone smaller but for it was a step between quality and going even more lightweight. While it's fitted into the small pocket, so every time I saw something I just needed to grab into my pocket get Get it out and take a picture. And at one point, when I saw like, Okay, I have a longer journey to go, I just put it on automatic. It okay, maybe I shouldn't say that here, I put it on automatic, you need to, you know, you need to find your in between way where you are still getting the picture. But you're too overwhelmed with all the setting handling. I mean, now I'm on a totally different level, we just talked before about my journey about photography, I would not do that anymore. I'm 100% Sure, I'm not in that kind of mindset anymore. Like all the settings come more natural to me, I can find them way easier. And the picture I'm searching for, I can find easier. But at that point, I did that track. And there were moments, you don't have enough oxygen in your brain, you are hiking already six hours in high altitude. And you have to carry all your stuff on your back. And it the trails also sometimes not easy to walk, and then you see something amazing, and you're just like, Oh my God, I want to take your picture and you just go in your bag and take it out, you just take a picture. And you go on, you know, and you need to also to harvest the harvest, or you say to keep an eye on the battery level, it's more you're in, in, in cold conditions. So the battery is draining very fast, you don't have the possibilities to recharge them all the time, especially because it's super expensive to recharge them. And so I I only took it out, turned it on, took one picture. And I turned it off again, I didn't ever look again on the pictures until I finished the full track. Because I did want to save the battery in case I see something out amazingly. And I want to take a picture of it. Yeah. And it's fun, like, your way of travelling and how you choose to travel is, is directly directly changing how you take your pictures, I met other people on this track, having a portrait with them, and having different lenses having a tripod and so on and so on. And I saw those people next to me taking pictures and they do take them differently. And they do take different kind of, they just have more possibilities. But also they're limited because their culture is they they always need to go the same way. You know, he can't just make like, Okay, today I'm staying here just because the sunset is nice now and I'm I rather enjoy it now. And then I continue in the next morning in a different way. But when you have a porter you can't just do that. It's not possible. So I think one of the main things is freedom also, which goes with my photography, the freedom of, of choosing where to go and what to explore. And in that case, I'm just taking the pictures on the way if that makes any sense.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:22  Yeah, no, that's that's really interesting. How that's, you know, I know, I did Annapurna Circuit and I know how tough that road is. And you know, if you have no Potter and have to carry everything. Gosh, like, you know, that must be really difficult. Having said that, I have so much gear that I think I had about 18 kilogrammes I think that's that's 1818 and a half on my back with my with my camera. So I bring two cameras, three lenses, and a few other things and tripods and stuff like that. But yeah, like it's by the way my camera was never in the back. Well that happens every now and then it has but most of the time it's just clip on my chairs on on on on Peak Design. And it's always there.
Ina Grischau  29:11  I haven't you see like you need to like slowly get there but when you start harbour freight you just don't have all this gear you need to like kind of slowly go through it. But your battery never died like I always needed to inside my pocket. You know, like,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  29:28  I think the problem is you had mirrorless camera right? And I think you know with especially with the earlier era of Sony I know that they have they're struggling with the battery because it's always running on the LCD, right? Well that's the DSLR is no problem at all like you know I have my five d mark four and it's one time I was doing time lapse in Yellowknife in Canada it was negative 53 degrees Celsius. So it was the coldest actually it was negative or negative 4042 Like you know four have a camera. But with the wind chill. For human, we feel it as if it was negative 53. But yeah, we it runs for about one and a half hours from full all the way to empty before it ran out, which is not that much different when I take photo in a warm condition. So I think it worked quite well. But you know, again, DSLR, right? It doesn't have it doesn't need to power the monitor to keep running. Yeah. So you know what? Something that you very interesting that you bring up you. You go out there, right, you go travel and a lot of people that's listening now and just go like, Man, I wish I have enough slides. She She travelled every two years, six, one and a half year at a time, the first one six months. The second one is one and a half year. Right? Is that is that?
Ina Grischau  30:53  I think no, that was one, but it was like one journey, you know, like this was a two year journey.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:58  Two year journey. Right? So yeah, for two years right now. And you mentioned about this, about the balance of having not only the mentality of you're gonna leave for your families and your friends behind, you can be on the road, right. But also the balance with financial part of it. So I love to hear, you know, the perspective because I know a lot of listeners out there will be like, and how do I do that? How can I how can I do that? Right? So I'd love to bring it back to that and get a little bit of your experience on? How can one do that not only mentally being away, and being alone and going out there by yourself trying to figure things out, because I know how difficult that could be. But also trying to find, you know, pulling, saving all that money pulling using all that money into yours. And then after the end of the trip, you feel like you have no money I feel like you're studying. So how do you go through that just take us through your mindset and where you think, Yeah,
Ina Grischau  32:12  I saw Oh, my God, you're talking about a topic, this is so sensitive, you know, like, there are like a few topics, you know, you feel emotionally attached to. And I noticed in the last years, I do have an emotional attachment to money, like it does give me a lot of security or especially especially not security if I don't have it. So in this two years travel, I was two times completely at zero at zero, like I didn't have any money left, none at all. And the first time was when I reached Canada, and there was a problem with my credit card. So it arrived in Germany and my, my parents sent it over to me to Canada. And it didn't never arrive. So it took like, not never, but it took like three months until it arrived. So in the three months, I just couldn't access any of my funds. And I needed to figure out another way, you know, so I believe when you go out there and you are facing and you don't, you're not fortunate enough to have a lot of funding. It's, it's a you need to have in mind that this can happen to you, you know, like and bring, like, try to put your self into a position. Okay, what would you do when this is happening? How would you? Do you have any friends or family members, we could ask him that moment to help you out. And What's plan B, you know, like, do have a plan B have a heaven security net, which is in inverse case take you when, for me it was my security net was a job. I'm avoided which was waiting for me in Germany. So in any case, I didn't know after those two years, I can go back to that job. And I will have a monthly income again. So that was my security net. So I just needed somehow to overcome the two years and to get back to Germany. This is a two things I needed to have. And then everything would be back to normal if that's good or bad. Everybody can decide to themselves. But yeah, that's that's one point. And you ask about like how to kind of fund this kind of travel so it's it's a very easy, easy task. You are getting money every month hopefully and hopefully you can save up that money and it's it's from for myself I own I would say On a regular income, it's not too much, it's not less. And so I can save a bit of that money each month. So I know like, every country is also different. Everybody gets different money, I guess you have a very international audience hear, which is listening. In in Germany, we have a lot of security, things, pay for insurances, and so on and so on. But we get also a lot of that back from the state. So there is less gap for saving. I know in America, you can have a bigger kind of saving funds. But in infrastructure in Indonesia, it's way smaller about just I can only speak from my experience at that point. So you can save each funds a little bit of money. And then what I did was I sold everything, I did not need it anymore. So I made a complete cut in my whole life. I sold everything, like literally, I bought also new things which I needed for this journey. So I kind of got into, I kind of moved into my backpack. So I had only a bigger travel backpack on my bag. And that was everything I owned, but I made sure everything I have in there is something I really need to get forward or to serve a camera. So by this I didn't say it like this, oh my god. But it's like, yeah, everything had a purpose, which was in there. But I made also sure it's a good kind of good quality, which I put in there or it needs it serves my purposes for this two years. And I was highly going for an adventure. And not four in five star hotel, hop on hop off. So especially the first things visit train, you know, where I was explaining you, this was partly really crazy. We had, we slept in like normal tents. You know, like, at one point, I was having a full week journey just to go to reindeer herders in nowhere. Like literally in nowhere, I needed to take a horse at the end for multiple days to visit those people. And it was like one of the best experiences on my journey in Mongolia. So but to experience this kind of, of outstanding things, you need to do outstanding stuff, you, you know, you need to be aware that there is no comfortable that waiting for you be happy if the ground is soft, kind of out. And you the for example, I was vegetarian before a Mongolia. And then I came to Mongolia in the first days, I could kind of survive as a vegetarian. But there was one point especially on this bigger journey to the reindeer herd herders where I could only eat meat. So it was a survival thing to change my diets. And at that point, I was like, okay, I can, I can literally eat what they just cooked for me. But it has meat inside. And it has meat inside, which I really don't like or since forever since I was even a kid. And I don't really even like to to eat it. But I need to eat it. Because otherwise the other option is starving. There's nothing else to eat. Like, there is no option. So yeah, diet, as that was something I never thought about before. But I needed to change it in. Yeah, to keep going. And I really wanted to go there because I saw pictures from those places. And they resonated with me so much that I wanted to see it was my own eyes and take my own pictures there. So yeah, it's it was one kind of a journey. And I'm super happy that I did that. And it's just like one example of the whole journey. You have always moments where you need to you very need to make an uncomfortable decision. And it has a good part and it has a bad part in it. And just those two together they feel maybe uncomfortable at this point. You are there but later on you will feel that it was worth it. You know, like every time you're like how how you did you do this? Yeah, it's mostly because you made sacrifices that leaving family and friends behind is maybe one thing you easily see but changing your diet It's something you don't have thought about before.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  40:03  You know, that's, I find that really interesting. And I really love this story. You know, I, I'm from a similar place where I use as an engineer, you know, I have a whole life stop, and I sold everything and literally live off a suitcase and a backpack and, and a laptop sleeve now, right? Like, nothing else. Like, that's all I need, you know, and that's, that's crazy to think that you could live of something that's just from a suitcase. And, you know, it's, it's really interesting, because I guess, you know, one of the series that, that I just meant it was about that about, like, you know, finding the solitude in nothingness and so forth. But what I want to hear from your perspective, is that what what would drive you will give you the courage because to, to just drop everything and do this thing. That is, of course, it's dangerous, it's exciting, but like you say, it can be uncomfortable, it is unpredictable, you don't know what it is. And even you know, and it costs a lot of money, right? You actually you sold everything to, to you sold everything and you sacrifice not having all of that materialistic thing for this? Well, I could say once in a lifetime, once in a lifetime experience that, you know, again, many people might not have the chance and the ability. So for people who out there who are already thinking about it, right? But they're like, You know what, I don't know, how am I going to live? You know, when I sell everything that I own? Who am I? So tell us a little bit? What goes through your mind? Like what drives you? What makes you want to do this?
Ina Grischau  42:00  Oh, my God? I don't know. I really don't know. Like, that's, that's the question. You know, you ask yourself a song, like, why are you doing this? You know, you're saying I needed to go into a hospital in Mongolia? You don't want to have this experience? No, like, you're sitting there, like, what am I doing here? You know, and you will meet people who exactly ask you this, ask you the same and ask themselves the same. And some give up, you know, like, some can't take it, they go home, they need to see their family and they need to see their friends, they need to have the security. But if you don't go out there, you will never know. Yeah, and I did go out 2015. I taught you before to Nepal, after the earthquake. And that was that was only six months after the earthquake or five months after the earthquake happened. So it was a very devastated scenario in this country. And I did not know that it was my first Asian travel ever, I did not know what to expect, I did not know what is normal over there. And I came in this country, which was completely destroyed from political things, which were happening between China, India and Nepal. And also this earthquake, devastation, and everything was not everything, but many things were destroyed, you were running through the streets, and they were like, bricks of stones are just like laying there. There were cracks in the in the, in the, in the roads, and so on and so on. So for me, when I visit Nepal, the first time, this was something I considered to be normal there, but it was not at all. It was just my impression I got from my first visit ever there. And it was a time where there was not much available. But you know, coming out also have an engineering job. I think we have many things in common. It's so funny. I did not know. But, um, yeah, I'm working also as an engineer. So I came out of this engineering job, and I went to this holiday and I made a lot of overtime before many mate might relate to that, you know, you make a lot of sacrifices in your job before you have a comfortable life. And then at one point, you're just like, Okay, I'm doing this crazy journey. And then you pack a backpack and you don't know what to expect. And then you travel there. And finally you're there. And then you notice something and this was for me, you need only three things in life. And those three things are you have a roof over your head, you have food in your tummy and you have clothes you can wear which are proper to the weather outside. So those are three things which you really need to survive it, you don't need anything else. This is like the basic basic thing you need. And from there on everything, you can be very, very grateful to have, you know, like, I came back from that journey and my eyes were, you know, opened wide, I was like, I did see this country in devastation and people having nothing and still be the most warm people and happy people ever. And many become my friends back then. And I was with them regularly afterwards. And notice that when I visited and and met them the first time, it was an exceptional thing for them in their lives as well. And you see really like how much they sacrificed or needed to sacrifice or the first pay from them. And then you just see you don't need much to be like frantically happy to, to just keep thriving, what was what kind of things drive you. And everything on top is is an extra year you notice when you're when you're back, that a lot of things are just too much. I don't know how to say, but look at things like I came back, I opened up my door, I can really feel like this emotion I still have in me, I opened up the door of my flat, and it came inside. And I had two feelings. First of all, it was empty. And second of all, it was huge. It was an empty, huge place. That was the emotion I had when I came home from my one month travel. And I'll say wow, this is crazy. I need to change something. And that moment I came back home from Napa for my first journey was exactly the moment I said, I need to change my life. And that was a moment. I did No, I will, I will completely, completely get rid of everything. And I will live in my backpack for an uncertain amount of time. And that was a moment I decided to do this longer travel, I didn't know at that point, how this travel reward I will be experiencing then what came home afterwards. But I didn't know I want to do that. And it took still to two years for preparation. And for still keeping my job and saving money and setting everything and so on and so on. But, you know, eventually happens. You just need to have this moment where something is triggering in your head and you know, you need you want to have actually something else and then you just need to go for it. It takes long, like I said two years. From the moment I noticed I want to change it and I did it. But that's Yeah.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:57  And that's very inspiring. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think this this is really cool, right? One of the things that I drive through the message that I drive through this this podcast is this whole notion about we we live in a social media world where everything is instant gratification you get your you know packet right away from Amazon, you get likes, you post something you get likes, you get commented right away, you get instant gratification, but, you know, for that reason we get really impatient to, to work towards where we want to be. And when you know when people hear about the story of you going like six months and one and a half years, and also like two years when a hobby, whatever it may be two years I yeah, I kept thinking it's like six months and then one and a half years.
Ina Grischau  48:53  It's myself, you know, I gave you just this first six months, and you only know about that one. But we didn't talk about the one and a half years. Like, we keep that on the side. We can't talk about this today. But I told you only the first six months of the year, rather and the one and a half years, there were still stuff happening, you know, like, but the first six months, I think that's when you go out and you do the first steps. And there are more. There are more taking an impression on your life and on yourself and on your character.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:30  Yeah, that's your that's your biggest change. Right. That's the biggest drive that that changed where you're going with your life, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I and you know, like, that's what I was gonna say, right? It's, you know, a lot of people kind of hear that and then be like, well, you know, you know, you're in Germany and you know, like you you're an engineer and you're, you know, of course you you have the money to go out there but you say to yourself, it took you two yours to save everything to put everything in line. And I truly believe that it doesn't matter where you are in this world that if you find a way and you work towards it, there is a way to get there. I know more, some people are more privileged than others write for us to live in a first world country, you as in Australia, Europe, it's, it's much more accessible. But you know, this just goes to you to show that even if you work in, you know, in if you live in, or if you come from this first world country, it's not easy. There's a lot of process to get there. So, thanks a lot for sharing that. I think that's really important to hear for the audience right now.
Ina Grischau  50:47  You're welcome.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  50:48  I'm intrigued with your other project, which was, you know, something that you can you can you can introduce, but what once you introduce it, what I want you to talk about is, why you're doing it and why you're going to this places connecting with the people to do this project.
Ina Grischau  51:12  Okay, so the very secret project I told you about is I'm working on a big project, which is eventually ending in in, in a format, which will be a book, like at least out of the current perspective. And it's a research project about tribal tattoos of the Tarot tribe, the Tarot are living on the border of Nepal and India, mostly on the Nepali side. And this side is not like everybody thinks about Nepal of the prayer flags and the big mountains. So Nepal has also jungle and it's a low altitudes, can you say low altitude? It's very low. It's not high up in it's a it's a real jungle, like you would imagine the jungle to be there are tigers there monkeys airliners and crocodiles, and so on, and so on. So you have all this wildlife there. And it's very well known. So people who go tracking they also go to the ship by national park, or Bardia National Park in Nepal, and they just go for entire search or whatever, and probably they don't see you on You're very lucky. Anyhow, it's, it's one of the things you can do there as tourists. So I don't, I know why, but I know how so it's a little bit confusing. Life is sometimes not going as planned, you know, like, and especially not as we expect. So what happened is when I went to Nepal, the second time in 2017, so I flew over from NASA to Nepal. There was a moment a friend asked me to take a picture of him on the I think it was one week ahead, you asked me can you take a picture of me? I'm like, Yeah, sure. What, what's it about? And he's like, getting a head tattoo. And I'm like, you're getting one. And he's like, I'm getting a hair tattoo. I'm getting my hair tattoos. Like, seriously, like, what he looked, he looked normal. You know what, that was a normal guy. And he had hair on his head. I was like, you gotta you saved all. And he's like, yes. Okay, well, he has all this, yes, I'm doing that I'm down. It's so crazy. I was not believing it. I was not believing it. And I saw him like, all saved off and getting the statue and I was so impressed on how this tattoo artist was working. During this tattoo, and all like he was so concentrated, he could see like a very focused energy going into his art, what he was doing there, and my friend being actually just like, just like, being an American, you know, like, he was like, completely off. He was just like getting this tattoo, you know, that was his only purpose to be there. But I was more and more like, very impressed on how this artist actually was working. So this was my first introduction into a tattoo. I would say I didn't have any tattoos. I didn't have anything to do as tattoos at that point. And there was a big Tattoo Convention around that happening. So I was three days at this Tattoo Convention and it was like a more like kind of family based kind of things so everybody didn't know each other. So I'm coming into this very close circle and experiencing that and I switched from taking pictures to videos, and I actually finished the complete video about this tattooing process he got on his head, and was very happy about what I just captured. It was also the first time I experienced to actually capture video and cutting it down and making a whole movie out of it. So like from scratch, and it was just inspired in that moment it happened, you know, like, it was not nothing planned or anything. So, coming to the actual topic of my secret is I when I was in 2017, there I, I came to know those people and I returned to Nepal. And she says 19 and I met the same people again. So those whole community of artists and I have mentioned this one tattoo shop and they had like a magazine there and I looked through that magazine, it was a local one. So about the Nepali Indian tattoo culture. And I found this one article, which was talking about travel touches of the Tarot. And that was the first really major moment I actually saw those tattoos and the the next things next, I went through sheet one national park, and when you go into the Chitwan National Park, and you are going on yourself, so you take a lot, a lot of paths, and you take it took took to go actually into the jungle, but you know, you're really squeezed in this little tip took and it happened to be that one woman was sitting in the squeeze and let her ticktick just cross of my seat. And she had those beautiful tattoos on her, you know, and I couldn't talk to her she was talking not my languages. I was not talking her languages. So we didn't have a common language, or accept sign language. Sign Language, by the way, is a very good investment to do. I don't mean the really technical side language. I mean, like, try to communicate only with your facial expressions and your body. And you're coming so much further in trouble. I tell you, this is safe. This is this is a pure alpha right now that's that's a sign language. But I was just like smiling at her and pointing at her tattoos and like, kind of into her body. And she went off at one station very soon. So I only asked her to take a picture. And she said it's okay, so I took a picture of her tattoo. And that was a very first picture I took of taro tattoo. And that moment in 2019, I went back to my job in Germany, and I was only back in July. And you can't believe it or not. And that is a moment where we are again, at that point light. When you have something here online, you really want to do it. That is a way that this is happening. It's somehow magic. But it just hasn't been 19 October already. I took the full October off. So I just came back, I was back basically bankrupt. I was on at zero in July. And in October, I took a long travel again and into the Stangl I didn't even have unpaid time, where I didn't even got money in and I took all the savings I had to them. And as was just like three months, August, September, three months, so only the money I could say from three months, and I took it all. And I spend it in another month. And that month, I only research about Tarot tribal tattoos, there was something happening in this trip took, I can't really explain. And I just connected with me. And you need to understand that this woman there are all olds, they're all old. So the younger generation or even the generation of my age, they don't do this kind of tattooing anymore. And it's super understandable. If you go into the process or how they're doing it, it's very painful and so on and so on. And they do it out of it, they do it also very young and in it's understandable kind of that this tradition is not continued anymore. So just to go from that point, like I was sitting at home and I thought like, How can I save this kind of designs? You know, how can I I kind of document this tradition in a way, which is respectful and can open a world to other people, which don't virtually never come in contact with anybody from the tribe, you know, they can even the tribe itself, like younger generations, how can they actually have access to their own tradition of like 10 years later, they want to actually learn something about this, but all the older woman are dead, you know, this is a very sad kind of drive I had there. So and time is running out on this project, you know, like at one point like other tattooed woman, they will be not not living on this earth anymore. So then tattoo culture will also the rest of their corporate culture will also be dying off. And this is not only specifically to tarot tattooing, like, all the tribes in the world are facing the same problem. There are just a few like the Maori tattooing, or the Hawaiian tattooing, which is surviving, also some Polynesian Get, get the attention of the Western world, you know, and that is, I think one of the key elements is not only the Western word, but you need to kind of present it in a way that people are falling in love is this magic, or this tradition and this designs, and then asking themselves, why don't we continue doing this, maybe not in the exact same state like it was done before, but like improving it a little bit, and continuing it, and
Ina Grischau  1:01:44  keep it alive, and then recognising it as a part of their their own cut short. And you can see there, so like a lot of levels inside of this. So I went there in October, and took my camera with me and look at Shelley pictures in a kind of Expedition I, I organised it myself, and did not know what to expect there. I actually went there. And I did not even know where to start searching or how to approach or how this should look like. And it was baby steps are baby steps and baby steps. And I went again and did another research. And it's it's very interesting, it's coming together, I found, I would say over 100 woman having different kinds of designs, found many explanations still being in their hats have like the meaning behind it. Like so which elements have a what meaning what they stand for, why they got tattooed, and so on, and so on. And many stories also are about like how they got tattooed. In I did to now only a photography project out of it. And like a story based approach. But for sure, there's like so much more to explore, you know, like, also maybe on a video base and so on. But the entire tribe is very big, and they have different styles of tattooing as well. So this project is really a big project. And, yeah, it's very, very challenging, especially because he wants to be not disrespectful to the people themselves. And you want to preserve it in a in a very respectful way. And, yeah, not I don't know how to say that. But it's a, for me, it's a very delicate topic on on, not pressuring them into anything, but still at the same time, trying to preserve as much as there is possible and as much as I can understand as a person, which is not from that tribe. That which is a very big factor. You know, like I'm coming as an outsider into the culture and trying to understand it, and nobody can tell me if I ever will understand it, you know, like, there is always a gap. I have a translator or tool with me and I need to rely on them. I do have a tattoo artist I met they're in, in the in this area in the shade one area, and he's also from that tribe. So I took him with me on one of those expeditions and to have somebody with me I can trust and rely on and also at the same time have him experience his own culture. If Before I came, he was not interested in this tattoos, you know, this is, this is one of the big tabs, which I find is really? Yeah, it makes me happy that a tattoo artists from the same tribe is actually being interested in his own culture and understanding at slowly understanding. Yeah.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:05:23  Yeah, I think he just, I think he just changed his life, to be honest, I'm sure. Ever since that, you know, he would never do say it. But it's so interesting, right? How, and I think it's really cool. How you, you approach this, and I know, there's a lot of things are dying here in our planet, you know, whether it's culture, history, even a lot of environment. Yeah, animals, you know, like, even the ice is disappearing. Right? So yes, it's, it's, you know, like, I feel like when we look at photography, you know, many people are looking at it as a way to just take photo and get likes on Facebook, and Instagram and Twitter. But in many cases, we owe it to the world to capture these moments and be able to preserve it for generations to come. And, you know, that it's, it's why, like, you know, when when people only care about the likes, it kind of breaks my heart because I feel like there are more to it than than that. But, man, it's what a what a story. It's just so so you have so much more story, I'm sure within your, you know, two years. So, yeah, because you talk about a lot of the six month. But anyway, we come into the one hour mark, and, you know, I'm sure you have a lot of wisdom. And one thing that I always ask the guests that come into the podcast is, you know, what, what are one of the most important or one of the most important or that lesson that you have come across in your life that you feel like, more people out there should preach it should Curie and should do it?
Ina Grischau  1:07:09  So I stay on that one on the photography side of things, I guess. And I mean, it's often said, and mostly overlooked, or people don't want to have it for real, but your technical equipment does not say anything about the quality of your photography. So yes, the quality output, indeed does change with your equipment. But going out there and taking the picture, actually, which is there and experiencing something through your photography, and making it available to other person, it does not matter if you go out with a point and click film camera, or you take the Alpha 6000, you know, and go out and go into the mountains and shoot Mount Everest, why not? And I mean, I'm super happy, I could upgrade in this year to a full frame camera and much nicer lands. But the start in the history, I have this my old camera and with my lower gear, it's something I don't want to miss. And it shows me that there is so much possible with the equipment you have. Because what you have and where you are right now is what counts, you know, don't dream about, like, oh, I need to have that extra one I need to don't also need to go to Greenland or to Iceland, or whatever. You can go out here and just try to improve your photography on a technical side and the creative side or just see your own city or your own landscape around behind your door, you know, in a different, different and new way. show the world how you see the world. I guess. That's one of the major things I learned in the last years. Yeah.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:09:15  Wow, that's I mean, you know, like, I think that's a lot of people have seen it. But I think not enough people also say that because still to this to this day, a lot of people kind of only thing that in order to take beautiful Grand photos, you need to go to places so far away. And I think if that is your mindset, you are missing a lot of things, capturing a lot of moments you missing capturing a lot of moments that actually happening right in front of you, but because your site is so far away, you you miss everything, right. Well, you know, it's been a pleasure. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much for sharing your stories and yours The group project,
Ina Grischau  1:10:02  it's my site, thank you so much for inviting me, it was a real pleasure to talk about all these things in that way, you know, don't get a chance too often, to talk about it in this kind of depth, especially in the foot. On the photography side, so thank you for giving me this opportunity.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:10:25  And your percent. And it's, you know, it's one of the mission of this podcast, but also, you know, hope a lot of a lot of listeners can learn from what you've gone through and some of the things that you've gone through and I from what I've seen is that people, most of us kind of go through a similar process, right? And it's why we connect with each other very, very well, because we connect in that sort of level. So yeah, very much you appreciate very much appreciate that you share a lot of this story. Now for the people who want to get to know you better, what is the best way to find you and your future project? I know you're working on a on an NFT project as well in the future. So just what is the best way to learn from about you and learn about your art?
Ina Grischau  1:11:15  And so the best way would be to follow me on Twitter, I guess, or just drop me there in DM, if you want to talk to me, like my DMs are always open. And I'm actually you're here right now. So I'm very open to conversations. So just drop me a message indeed on on Twitter, even Instagram, it's totally fine. It goes with my first name and surname. So in Agra Xiao all together on both platforms, you can also write me an email, actually. But they're all linked on my bio side, which is linked on each of the socials. And yes, indeed, you took something away, I am working on the last little bits of putting my NFT collection together, it will be my Genesis. And it will be part of what we talked today a lot not about the secret project, though, that that demand is not finished, but about the journey and bring many elements of that journey to the people and to make it more accessible. Because there's so much in here, which happened in the last two years, and I kind of want to use the medium off the nfts. To, to Yeah, just make people aware about what happened. What can happen on a journey? Or what happened to my journey?
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:12:44  That is fantastic. Yeah, I
Ina Grischau  1:12:46  think a lot of people on Twitter.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:12:48  Yeah, though, I think people should really share a lot more of their journey and you know, like, what, what they've gone through what's gone through their journey. So Well, thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much for sharing all the stories now we get hunters, if you haven't come across in his work yet, please do follow her, you can find the link on the description below. But with that being said, thank you for being here. And listening to us, you know, having this conversation listening to is stories about her travel and incredible, like, you know, exploration to some of the culture that might not going to be here in in, in a few years time. You know, I think a lot of us need to realise that a lot of the things that that we've been taking things for granted that a lot of the things that are happening and are in this world right now is disappearing, whether it's culture, like I say an animal, you know, whatever it may be. So go out there go travel like inner said, you know, take the courage to do that. And go explore and see what you can find out there. I think there's a lot more place in this world you can explore away from Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and you know, whatever in your computer and on your phone. Well, you know, thank you very much for being here again. And with that being said we can do is I'll see you on next episode. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button as well as leave a review. Let us know what you like about this podcast about in his work, or her story as well as if you know anyone that you'd like to hear from the podcast. Alright, you know, thank you very much and I'll see you next time.
 
 
 

Ep 54 - How Subodh Shetty stays true to his passion and purpose and push through adversity during the unprecedented time of the pandemic

Hey Wicked Hunters, I'm so excited to share this week's podcast with someone who's a master in storytelling. Subodh is a photographer who left his job to pursue his passion for photography. In this podcast, he shares how he came across many challenges to staying afloat during the pandemic. He thought he had to let go of working on his passion for photography. But during the toughest time, Subodh finds the courage to push on and pivot to stay true to his purpose. Subodh is a master of storytelling both through words and photography. A true inspiration. You can find more of Subodh work on:
https://twitter.com/SubodhShettyyy
https://linktr.ee/SubodhShettyy 
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Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com  
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For those of you who want to see connect with Stanley Aryanto, you can go to the following:
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https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/ 
 
Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast in the comment below and subscribe
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Transcription:
0:00  Need, something else shows up? You know, that's how light works, you know, if you're true to what you do, and especially after COVID, I realised, you know, I said, the COVID story is a long story. And I literally thought that's the end of my whole journey, you know, the photography, end of it, let's go back to work, because I'm done. But that's when something happens. You know, a number of things have happened in COVID Unexpected jobs, some unexpected awards, I don't even participate in photography competitions. But during that time, there was no option I had to participate so that I can earn some money out of it and sustain myself till the COVID goes away. So I won awards, I got unexpected jobs from really big, big corporate companies, which kept me afloat, and then came NFT. And it completely changed the game. So whenever you feel that's it, that's the end of it. Just know that it's just a passing phase, and it will be okay. So yeah, follow your passion, everything's gonna be okay.
1:03  Here we go. Hunters, welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artists journey, and how they find hope, purpose and happiness, true photography. And today, we have somebody who's very, you know, very iconic in the NFT world, and he is someone who have such an incredible work, both in all kinds of genre, and I am so honoured to have him here, because, you know, he runs a lot of Twitter spaces. And for those of you who are not in Twitter, it's basically a place for us to voice hang out around each other. And he got one of the craziest story. So this is one of the reasons why I want him here to share some of the story in, you know, not only to intrigue you, but also in hope that you can draw inspiration from where he had gone through. So let's welcome to both Shetty both how're you doing Welcome to the Art of Photography
2:03  podcast. I certainly. And hi to everyone listening. So nice to be here. It's always interesting to get a chance to share your story because that's what we do. You know, we are storytellers, and they can never be enough that we can speak about our journey as well as our art. So it's good to be here.
2:23  Ya know, like, absolutely. And I think you're really good with storytelling is something that, you know, every time I hear you talk, I always try to learn and pick up the way you tell a story. It's just so, so intriguing, and really keep you on the edge. So I really enjoy that. So hey, no doubt
2:45  that he said that because I was keep wondering if I make people bored in my spaces with my stories, you know, because sometimes I go all over the place because I am a guy who's very curious. And I'm not a guy who just sticks to photography. I go everywhere, you know, I am into cosmic stuff, you know, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Carl Sagan and all that. I'm towards the other side. I watch a lot of podcasts, including all this Joe Rogan stuff. So yeah, I go everywhere. So I bring everything to the table. Wherever I can connect the dots. I'm like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. This makes sense. So sometimes I wonder if my storytelling is all random. But I'm glad that makes sense.
3:22  Well, it's, it's interesting, right? Because a lot of people have different kind of take to it. But I'm, I'm very similar to you. I love hearing like, I get curious very easily. And I love to explore. So when you should, you know, tell a different thing about a totally different thing about the initial story that we were talking about, I actually get really intrigued about it. So I don't know if it's just me, but I'm sure you know, a lot of people are on your space. I'm sure they are really enjoy it. But um, you know, you you made a lot of success in the NFT world. And I can say that you're one of the person who helped shape the NFT world right. Now, before we kind of get into that. And, you know, like your amazing photography, not only in wildlife and other genre, just tell us a little bit about who is both, you know, and how did you get started with photography?
4:20  Third, no, I'm, I come from a corner in India, which is South India, there's a small little town called Manipal. So that's where it comes from. Manipal is known for its educational universities and everything. It's spread across the world, including the place I'm right now in Dubai. So even in Dubai, we got a Manipal University, which comes from my back door. So yeah, it's very famous place for education. That's where I come from. And as far as you know, my photography goes, I came to Dubai in 2009 in search of a job at that point, I had no photography in my life. So I came to look for a job because just to go uh you know, find something which is worthwhile came to the why and I had a pharmaceutical degree. So I got into this pharma field and I used to be the pharma business and yeah, eventually device is a beautiful country city with a lot of wonderful cityscapes and Burj Khalifa and whatnot, it's very well organised and very much ready for photographers to explore. So in between all that, you know, there was Facebook, which is quite new at that time, and in Facebook, I would see that photographers from Dubai are posting pictures of Dubai in a very beautiful way. And yeah, we all know, you know, photography versus our eye, there's a difference. Because in photography, there's editing this blue hour, this golden hour, which is not that vibrant in our normal life, you know, we just see it in real way. So that photos really got me I'm like, Wow, man, these people are creating some standards. And I think I shouldn't be creating the same because they're all next to me, you know, this all wonderful structures. And that's how I began photography, I got a camera, and it was just a Nikon three, one double zero, which is the most basic camera can buy. Because it's not so sure, because there have been phases in my life, where I've got a guitar, for instance, before photography, I got a guitar, I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna learn music and I failed miserably. And I realised, I should be more careful because that guitar was very expensive one, and then it's of no use, because I can't play the guitar. So I'm like, I'm not gonna do the same mistake with my photography. So I got a very, very cheap camera with a kit lens and explored the streets of Dubai, shooting all the cityscapes and everything. And then I realised, okay, there's something in this photography, which clicks for me, you know, I have some kind of an eye for it. Because I would always, even in my real life, you know, whatever I do, even right now, as I speak to you, there is keyboard in front of me, there is mouse in front of me, there's the airport in front of me, even when they're on the table, I like to keep it organised, I don't want it to be scattered all over the place, that compositional thing is always in me, keeping things in order. So that's exactly what I did with photography, I was trying to create a order in those chaos. And I realised there is something called composition, which comes to me naturally, and I took it took advantage of it. And we may hit Facebook today. But Facebook is where I got all the encouragement. During my beginning days, there used to be a lot of photography groups, and I would take my, you know, beginner style images and post on the group. And they would give me feedbacks. And I learned a lot through that process. And I realised that, you know, it's a bunch of people who are creating all these things for nothing but happiness, you know, just for the sake of feeling good. And I realised this is a nice place to be. And that's how it all began. Eventually, he wants you in every picture I took during those days in the beginning, this would be 301, double zero, then I got a wide angle lens, I would pop up a ND filter on it, and 1000 which is like crazy, high amount of nd I wanted everything to be a five minute exposure, nothing less would do. So that was my initial phase. And then I eventually started getting bored of it. I'm like, Is that the end of my photography? I'm not connecting to it anymore. So then one of my friends told me into street photography, I said, No, I'm not interested. I don't want to do streets. Because Dubai has two sides. One is the Burj Khalifa and the buildings. Other side is the old Dubai with real people doing real things on the streets. People mean, he said, Come over, just try streets once, maybe you will like it. And I tried it. And that was the life changing moment, I would say in photography, because I completely quit the cityscapes and got into street photography, meeting people talking to them, having some tea with them taking their portraits, you know, everything is a chaos and in between that you're finding some gems that really clicked for me. And that's how my photography began. And then eventually you start meeting the right people connecting with a small bunch of you create your own small little group and then you start going out more and more, it becomes something that you look forward to, you know, you pretend to work for five days during the week, just looking forward to that two days of weekend when you can go out and shoot again. That gives the boost which is incredible, I'm sure in every photographer understand. Yeah, no,
9:07  I totally it's like a getaway for us. Right? It's a way to be free and be ourselves and be able to express ourselves. Now that's that's really interesting. I don't think I've heard that side of you know, of the long exposure part so you're really intrigued with the really extra long exposure creating that really smooth scene and then you turn into street photography and that kind of sparked your your idea. I mean, your your love for photography. Now. What are you know, like, I guess when you say you tried guitar before, and I'm sure as someone who loves to explore everything, right? I'm sure there's a lot of things that you like to try in the past. So what make you stay in photography, like what what is different compared to guitar and other thing that you have? pursued and try and, you know, want to be good at?
10:04  Yeah, I mean, one, there are a couple of things, you know, if I have to again, go back to those days, when I got into streets, what made me connect to the streets is the stories that comes along, you know, because you don't just meet a person, you meet a building you I mean, not made, you see a build, take a picture that's about it, there's no conversation, it looks great, it gets a lot of whatever, Marie shares and everything, but still, you're not communicating anything really interesting there. But in case of people, every time I point a camera, you know, even before you point a camera to a person, there will be a small conversation, can I take a picture of you, this and that, and then there'll be some jokes, and people usually get nervous. And all those little things which you navigate as you get to the point where you take a picture, that's very, very interesting for me, because I get to learn a lot. And I come from India, and in Dubai, it's a mix of India and Pakistan, and all kinds of nationalities, Egyptians and whatnot. You know, everyone, there are 170 nationalities in UAE. So you have a chance to communicate with so many people, and sometimes you you you can make a picture, without even knowing the language, you know, if it's India or Pakistan, I can talk in my language, Hindi, and they will get to know what I'm trying to say. But there are certain times when you meet a Chinese, they don't talk a word of English, how do you communicate, I still want this picture. That navigation, you know, makes it a lot of fun, you know, do you just realise that humans are humans, you know, it's, it's so much fun. No, you explore the psychology and how it all works. And at the end of it, you know, you bring a smile on their face, you have a smile on your face by the end of it. And even eventually, as that thing progressed, and I realised that I love people, I love to shoot people, but they're still in my mind, maybe just another face, you know, I liked long exposure of city that accepted to STS, maybe there's something else I need to do, maybe I still not found that real side of my photography. And that's how I realised that I should travel and travel to the Himalayas, my very first trip was to the Himalayas, and in India, and when I went to the Himalayas, it's my first time seeing all the snow peaks and everything. I took all my wide angles, and ND filters and everything, because I thought maybe this is the real face of my photography, where I'll put a nd take a picture of this Himalayan peaks, and I'll be so connected. But then I realised you went to Himalaya, I was interacting with people more, I was enjoying meeting those locals more than the mountains. I enjoy seeing the mountains, I love that lack of oxygen, it makes me feel more alive, weirdly. But what really connected to me was the locals, you know, the people on the land. So again, I realised people are my strength, you know, I need to do this more and more and more, and it gives me wings, you know, because throughout my life, I don't know how it works in your country. But in India, we are always busy with study, study, study till one point and you get your degree and then you go out and start working. There's no real exploration happening there, you know, nowadays is changing. But before during our times, I feel I'm not that old to say during our times, that is the 1990s There are still no such concept as to ask you get your education, you're also travelling and exploring none of those things. You just study, study, study, and you get a degree, you're into job, and then you just live that normal life. But here, it gives me a chance to explore the world for the first time and all because of just one little thing in my hand, which is camera, which gave me all the excuse. And I began travelling like a lot, it is literally a viral infection. Now once I took the flight and went to Himalayas, I'm like where next? You know, and I still had a job, full time job. And I would still make sure that I find excuses, take some leaves of the job and get out and make this travels happen. I went to many, many places in India, Sri Lanka, and Nepal, one after the other, I started taking off places from my from my bucket list. So yeah, this connects connecting with people and excuse to travel to a new place, meet new people, and understand the culture, you know, it completely changes your perspective towards the world. I think that's what keeps me going. It kept me going to the extent where in 2017, you know, 2010 is when I took photography 2017, seven years of managing photography, and my corporate job came to a standstill in English like either choose this or choose that you can't do both. Now we know it because it won't justify either often. So that's when I gave up on my full time job. And I in 2017, I became a full time photographer, I put up my own company in Dubai, which is quite expensive to do and quite a risk to take. And since then, I've been doing photography workshops, which again is an important factor which keeps my photography going because I know that whatever I create, it's one thing to just put it on social media this and that getting the likes and followers and whatever. But also at the same time you're creating a bigger impact which is inspiring others to take up the same passion because a lot of people have cameras. It's not a big deal. Everyone has a camera now, but making them step out of their comfort zone, making them travel with me so that I can show them what I see how I feel, why it's so important to capture these people that is a catalyst, which keeps me going. And that's why I do photography workshops full time, that's my full time job now. So as such kind of motivation, there's nothing that can stop it. Yeah, wow, that's, that's
15:20  inspiring. And, you know, like, I totally can resonate with that, you know, having to being told that the only way to succeed in life is to go to school, get a good grade, and then you go to a good university and get good grades, get good job, get married, buy a house, and you die, right. And, honestly, like, I didn't know any other way of life until like, when I was 30. And that's when I left my career as a mechanical engineer. And, you know, I didn't even know what I was doing. But I, I know that it's not what I wanted to do. And I know that I love photography. So I totally can resonate with what you meant, you know, especially. And like, when you look at the Western culture, it's a little bit different, right. And they're encouraged to explore and take a gap year before before the, the before they full time work and stuff like that. So they can actually figure out what they want to do in life, whether they like that lifestyle, or whether they like the nine to five, which nothing too, nothing wrong with it at all. But I think the worst thing is when you do something that is not you, right, and just have that, that conflict within yourself, but really love what you shared there. And one thing that I really admire with you is the storytelling, right? I said this earlier, now you normally you do storytelling through words, but also through your photography. Now, I want to get into a little bit more of that. So when you go out there, right, whether it's on the street, whether it's the building, whether it's the wildlife, or the landscape and travels. How do you translate what you see? And how do you translate that into a frame that tell us story?
17:09  Yeah, that's a very interesting question. Because storytelling is always debated. In photography, even now, in Twitter spaces. There's always every second day that someone comes up and says, Your photo should do the talking. Artists should not add descriptions. I'm like, No, you have to add your descriptions. Because, you know, because we are storytellers, what's what's this? You know, what's the point, you know, without any story, just a beautiful image is common, you know, it's everywhere. What makes the picture special is the story which comes behind it, because it's the artistic emotion that comes along with it. So when I think one of the common mistakes that people do, even I did before, and I learned from that, through experience, is when you're telling, trying to tell a story, don't just tell the story of what's in front of you, you know, if I'm taking a picture of, for instance, in order to do a quick example, one of my NFT was a wildlife image of a lioness with her cups, you know, it's a single frame with one lioness and three cups next to her. My story could have been here is a lioness in Maasai Mara, in Kenya, sitting on a termite hill and watching the sunrise or whatever, that would be straightforward, because anyone who sees the picture, that story is there, you know, they will, they can read it, it's common knowledge. So you don't have to tell something which is already there. Tell something beyond that, you know, tell what you feel about it. Take it around, you know, in a different manner. For instance, in that picture, my story was about Lion King. You know, I connected the Movie Lion King, which we all know the Disney movie, in that movie, lion is the king and lioness is completely ignored. Because it's a lioness. It's all about the king what he does, and blah, blah, blah, fighting with his brother. I don't know the story exactly. But it's all about the lion as the hero. But in real life, when you see wildlife photography, when you see these lions and real, it's never about the Lion King. You know, it's always about the Queen, because she's the one who hunts, who brings food for the whole family. She's the one who protects the kids. She's also the one who manages to keep lion in check. The King is kept in check by the lioness because they can misbehave sometimes. So it's all run by the Queen, and no one talks about it. So here I had a chance to tell that story that Disney had some in no like knowledge of how the animal world works, they would make this lion is the real king of that movie and not the lion acid as a whole. So that's the kind of narrative doesn't have to be always straightforward. Here is this thing and that's about it. Take it in other direction, tell what you feel about it. You know, as I'm shooting. I'm always thinking, you know, my mind is such I told you I'm a very, very curious guy and always thinking in different different ways. Even when I look at a lion or a cheetah or a leopard when I'm shooting them. I'm thinking of their mind, you know, like what they should be thinking right now. I'm never looking at a straightforward picture. I'm always looking in different different ways. For instance, a fly comes and sits on the face of a leopard I keep in mind The thing I keep looking at its eyes, what's its reaction to the flight as it walks around its face? What is it thinking right now, you know, that's the kind of thing I'm building in my head. And if I put that picture out tomorrow, I'll maybe talk about the flight and the leopard together, rather than tell it that we're sitting in a bush. Now, that's very boring. So I always take it in different different directions, a whole image description of a leopard, where I didn't talk of the leopard, I just wrote about its tail. Because the tail of a leopard is always it has its own language, it's always moving with its thoughts. And you can always see, when it's more curious, it moves in one way, when it's very bold, it moves in another way. So I wrote a story just about the tale of the leopard. I didn't even talk about the leopard itself. So those are the things you know, storytelling is very important. It's your narrative. And your job as a photographer is to tell the story, otherwise, how will you be remembered? Not by your 10,000 likes, not by your 1 million followers, you will be remembered by your stories.
20:57  Yeah, wow. That's, that's very profound. And it's really good to share that. And I think it's, it's a new perspective as well to kind of think about it from a different perspective. And I mean, I myself learn from that a lot, being able to look at a scenery, something that could happen, but tell it from a perspective of a different, different, different way, not only what you see, and that's really cool, I really enjoy that. Thanks for sharing that even for
21:26  instance, when I went to Everest base camp, I had a bunch of pictures which I created, I posted them on Instagram, and this and that. And during that time, again, the same thing came to my mind, okay, I went to Everest base camp, what do I say I brag about being in Everest base camp? What do I do with the storyline, and I was thinking about it. And as well, as I was walking to Everest base camp for those 10 days, I have to look at the people around me, like I said, you know, I look at a flight sitting on a leopard. So here, I have like 100 people in front of me. So I observe each one of them what's going through their mind, there's a small kid walking the Everest base camp. This is a two year old male who's walking the rest to Everest base camp. There are a lot of investors wanting to rush Basecamp. I'm thinking of all their stories, why they are here know what they're trying to do what they're trying to achieve. So I wrote a story about that, you know how it's not about me making it to Everest base camp. It's about why any one of us take that journey, whether it's Basecamp, or whatever it could be whatever the face of your life, why do we take that journey? You know, I wrote a story about the why of why we travel, and what it means to each one of those individuals. So the stories can be taken in many, many ways. Rather than say, I went to a rich base camp, and I made this image, I can take it in my own direction, my own emotions. So yeah, we have the subconscious of thoughts. In always, we're thinking, there's a second voice in our head, each one of us have that voice. Just note the note down those voices. Because every time you start giving some thought to that voice, you're hearing the story line, which you're building, as you're noting them down, you know, most of us unconsciously forget what our second mind was saying, you know, when you're pointing your camera at whatever it could be pointing it your mind. Second mind is always doing the other narrative in your head, if you just give it some thoughts, and put a mental note to that you have a story right there. That's the other side of the story, then what you're looking at?
23:15  Wow, that is so much value, right? There's so much wisdom, and I really love that. And, you know, just going to that storytelling, and you know what you say about the second mind. We talked you talked about how they are the obvious and they are the thing that that come into the story, right, the secondary and tertiary and the things that not necessarily been the main focus, not the the main, grand, grandest, most obvious thing. Now. We know that, you know, in this world, in this era, right now, there is so many different types of distraction, right, our phone is keep buzzing, and then somebody's calling and, you know, we got our, our iPod, our iPhone, and you know, some people you have even like multiple phones and all this stuff. So how do you kind of separate that separate? The, you know, like, kind of isolate yourself in in this moment, so that you could hear and listen and explore what's in front of you?
24:24  Yeah, I mean, I do deep space photography. And in deep space photography, we have a term called signal to noise, which is how much of signal and how much of noise are you capturing? So I think that's the same thing here. You know, cut the noise, you know, there will be a lot of distractions, whether it's NFT side of the world, you see how many dramas run there every single day. I don't indulge in those dramas. I read them. I move on this AI conversation going on right now. What is AI whether AI is art, or is not art. I have my opinion. If I have a space, maybe I'll talk about it. And that's about it. Beyond that. I don't go are, you know, going into every tweet and commenting on everyone and trying to prove that they are wrong? I am right. The moment you start doing into getting into that business, you're wasting your time, you know, your time is valuable, and your energy is important. So yeah, just trying to avoid all those nonsense we know even Instagram, there is a real nowadays, people are doing all kinds of shit on that Instagram nowadays, know, wonderful artists are lost their track, you know, they're doing whatever it takes to get that little followers and views and million, whatever. So I don't even give a damn I do my reels, but in my own way now very classy way in a very cinematic way. I said, I will never get into that business of me walking with the camera, and then the transition happens. I am like, I don't need all that, you know, that's not the kind of artists that I am. So you have to just choose your poison, you know, and choose your path. A lot of my friends say you're missing out on Instagram by not doing really, if you keep posting your wonderful cinematic videos, no one cares about them. If you put all your images, no one cares about it. I'm like, doesn't matter. I don't care. If it's 100 people liking my image or 1000 people liking my image doesn't matter. Whoever connects connects, or doesn't doesn't, I'll just let it be. You know, that's one of the things I do in my life, or just as being stoic. If you can't control something, just let it go. Don't break your head over it, you know. So I think that itself solves half of the issues. Otherwise, yeah, there is a lot of things. there's Twitter, there's Instagram, there's a little bit of Facebook, there's vero now new software, social media. And there is what WhatsApp and telegram and how many things are gonna manage. If you put if you intelligence into all these things. Even I have my friends, you know, I'm sure I hope he doesn't listen to this. But if he doesn't, that's fine. But we, me and him, we were both photographers. And before, you know, before I came into nfts, and everything we used to, during especially COVID days, we used to have a lot of wonderful friends. But we disagree on many things. And we used to have a lot of arguments on WhatsApp, very passionate, not like we are punching each other on face. It's just opinions. And it could be about COVID. Or it could be about vaccine and whatever. And we would argue a lot to and fro to and fro to and fro could go on and on and on forever. And now I realised that while I was doing that, it's a waste of time. Now, whenever he sends me something like that, I just have a common response. You are right, even though I don't believe in it. I just say you're right. And that's it, then what what else is left to say? He's right, nothing to argue about. So I just let it be, you know, now I learned that style of just letting it go. If you want to think you're right, you're right. Enjoy the madness. And let's move on, you know, so Yeah, time is very, very valuable. And I'm trying to now figure out ways to not waste my time on noise. Stick to the signal, signal to noise is very, very important. That is incredible.
27:51  And yeah, like, you know, there is there is a saying that, you know, in order to win the war, sometimes you have to lose a fight, right. And then sometimes you just have to let go and, and sometimes letting go is the best way to win. So that's very wise of you to kind of share that. And I really
28:11  love something. We all have opinions. And we're all passionate about our opinions. But it doesn't mean you could just go and bounce everywhere your opinions, you know, just give it when it has to be given. If you just go around 100,000 times running around with your opinion, then you're just being a joke, you know, so just keep it to yourself. It's okay to not always have everyone agree to you, you know, it's okay, we are humans. And there's always agree to disagree which happens. And most often. The moment you stay away from this madness, you have more time to do something else. People ask how do you I have so much of time to run spaces? How do you have so much time to go out and shoot and to make all this photography trips? That's exactly because of this reason? And I don't I use my time for space because I save that time by not arguing with someone else outside. So why don't you start saving time somewhere? You can invest it in the right place.
29:04  Yeah, that's absolutely important, right, focusing on the right things in life that give you the energy and give you the positivity. And that's great. And I think one thing that I want to get into a little bit deeper is what you said earlier about the social media, right? How the social media kind of drive that attention and drive, how people are putting out content and are and how people are consuming it. Now, I know that the social media is, you know, with everything that happened is one of the biggest source that creates impostor syndrome, one of the biggest source that create this lack, right because what people see on social media is it's never it's almost never like what it's in real life. It's the highlight of everyone's real right. I mean, even peep when people share The struggles like I do share a lot of my struggles on social media. But even that, like you don't know what I had to actually go through behind the curtain, you know, just to share that one thing, right? So what what do you what do you have to say for people who are kind of hitting this wall of imposter syndrome and, you know, searching for followers and looking for ways to, to get more exposure, because I think there are two different view of this, which is, you know, it's important to get the exposure and get your, you know, social media kind of have the engagement and so forth. Because a lot of times, that's when you get your sales, or that's when you get your next opportunity. You know, there aren't a lot of opportunity associated with the exposure you get on social media. But at the same time, there is also the negativity behind that, where it actually bring down, you know, the way you feel even the way you react to the world and behave as a person. So how do you have anything to say about how to find a balance and how to treat social media from that sense?
31:18  Yeah, I think I would be the last person to talk about social media, because I never followed I like I said, I never followed any of those norms of social media, and Instagram, there was a time when, as tax, you know, I have my own friends who used to use certain apps, which would create hashtags for them every single day, depending on what's the most happening hashtags. They would say, use this app, use this hashtag. I'm like, I'll not use a single hashtag, I don't care. No, that's my way. I don't care if they like me, or if they don't follow me. I just don't care. And that's the reason my Instagram is still below 20,000. You know, like, it's taken eight years, nine years to reach that 20,000 Because I'm not never pushing it. Well, my friends, maybe they have 100,000 followers, who cares? You know, I don't give a damn, you know, that 19,000 is also we know how Instagram works, you know, 556 1000 of them would be fake profiles. Maybe I have, let's say 10,000 actual followers, that's enough for me, you know, that's my little crowd. I'm happy with that. And, you know, I really don't care much. I don't use any of those hashtags. Like I told I don't do any of those trending reels, I do it my own way. And I never get into, you know, you had to post it this time of the day, you have to put post at this time of the night to get the maximum reach. I'm like, I don't give a fuck, I will post whenever I want. You know, I don't care. So that's been always me. And that continues to be me. Even in Twitter. There's a lot of algorithm things people talk about don't retweet too much. I'm like, I'll read it. 100 people every day, I don't care. Don't go to it too much. I'll record record with everyone. I don't care. So yeah, I mean, I just don't care. That's been my way. Even Twitter. I'm surprised. You know, it grew very fast. I came in January. And today, it's what December, almost 910 months awkward. So I never expected all these things to happen in Twitter, I just came in thinking, okay, and other social media, and I'm just gonna be me, you know, again, I'll never put any hashtags. And never do anything time based or anything that helps the algorithm, I'll do everything it takes not to feed algorithm, I'll do whatever I want. That's all you know, I don't care about algorithm and everything. We have spaces on this topic where people discuss, and I'm the bad guy there because I say do whatever the hell you want. Don't care about the algorithm. If the shadow venue, they'll bring you back not a problem. So yeah, that's been my way. I'm the last person to talk about social media and never let it really influence me too much. And, yeah, you had to just create your own piece with social media, if you just chase, if you look at others getting 1 million views or 10 million views on tick tock. And if you want the exact same thing to happen to you, you're wasting your energy, you know, just do good work, keep posting them up, and enjoy the process, rather than worrying about things you can't control. So yeah, I don't really I'm not the person to talk about social media at all. Yeah, well, I
34:08  think you have talked a lot about social media and I think that's very important to have. You know, I personally still believe that it's important to have the exposure but I think it's important to have that mindset as well of sticking to your own thing and not diluting your value right I think that is I see that a lot of people like you say a lot of good creators are no longer an artist in social media because the reels is you know, more and more people get attracted to
34:38  reels. The world is growing.
34:41  There you go. And, you know, and and it's I think it's okay to have that in social media. But, you know, when when you are an artist and you do too much of that then are what what are you doing right, you weren't that's not the reason you're here. It's different, you know,
34:57  disclose that in the difference. There are two kinds of creators, one who just lowers and likes and reads. And maybe that's their, that's what you need, do whatever it takes, then there's other kinds, who doesn't give a damn, just does whatever he likes. And when I see Instagram or any place I go, whether it's vero or Instagram, or even Twitter, you know, I know that I create a portfolio everywhere I go, I don't like to post random things, my selfies my whatever, you know, my cat, my car, I don't need all those things. I'm a photographer, and I'm going to stick only to that my voice and my language, then I'm a guy with a tattoo on my hand, which says religion, photography. So I need to take that thing seriously. So I treat it that way I can like my religion. So wherever I go, I make sure it's my portfolio and whatever people, if they visit Instagram, they'll see a clear portfolio of mine, what I do is exactly what I show. And beyond that, knows, even now I'm talking not talking to you with the camera on because that's me, I don't like to put my selfies. I don't like to do any of those self indulgent things, you know, because I'm not that guy. For me, it doesn't matter. You like my work? That's my signature. And that's about it. You know, beyond that, I can't help it. You know, and same thing with Twitter, I keep a portfolio. Same thing with vero, I keep a portfolio. So I like to keep it organised. So that another kind of photography photographer who's on social media, so if you're the first kind, if you want all the followers and likes and reach and algorithm and everything you care about, then of course, you need to play the game, which people are doing on social medias. But yeah, it's it's it's your path, you take your path, my path is this, I don't care about all that.
36:34  Yeah, that's incredible. And I think that's one of the most important thing for us to stick to is, you know, whatever feels right to us, and whatever was, you know, our own path now, you know, just kind of take it back a little bit, you know, you talk about this photography, talk about the storytelling, and how you can impact people and all this stuff. Now, if I were to ask you a one liner question, right? What is your mission in photography, like what you're hoping to bring to the world through what you've captured in the form of photographs?
37:13  Yeah, I do all kinds of photography, as you know. And wherever I do, there's always a story that I stick to, you know, whether it's wildlife, with wildlife, I'm trying to, from my own style, you know, I'm trying to create an awareness and make people appreciate this wonderful creatures, every time I speak about them, I speak with a lot of passion, I always mentioned, what's the problem happening in this field of wildlife, you know, when it comes to these animals, and I can kind of stress on how valuable they are, how little they are in this world, and how we can maybe do a small little thing and create a difference, et cetera, et cetera. So there's that, you know, I'm always I love wildlife. And from my childhood, I have been loving them. And I bring all that passion to that field. And with my portraits, I always like to tell the story of people there, you know, mostly, it's about what I learned is what I try to preach, which is when I have to travel to these corners of the world, and meet these people staying in the most humble way, and at the same time, most happiest people I ever come across. Because what I see in Dubai is miserable, you know, the people have so much of money, they're driving a Mercedes and whatever in a Lamborghini. And still, they're not happy to concede in the face. But when I go to this corner of the world, and people have literally nothing, and they're still the happiest people. So I try to communicate that, you know, there's some learning, that's my learning from these places. So wherever I go, I find those books, you know, as to what makes me go there again, and again, because I'm not a person who's ticking off all the countries in the world. And that's not my mission. I've seen some photographers do that. It's cool. If you want to visit every country in the world, that's incredible. But for me, it's always about going back to the same place. You know, once I go to a place, it's not like, I'm done, I've visited this place, it's over, I'm done with this place, I go again, and again and again, because I like to go into the depth of that place and understand the real, more and more depth of the stories behind those people and how they live and what they do. So yeah, these are the narratives that I've played with. And I think overall, you think of a broader perspective, after 50 years, what what is that I'm trying to create is just a beautiful narrative of how beautiful the spaces are. And those spaces may be very limited. Maybe I'll have 15 places explored in complete depth, rather than how 120 countries explored in 50 years. I don't want that attack, I just want those few places explored very, very well, in every sense possible, you know, so, yeah, for instance, I go to the Similan village, that's a bunch of villages around and so whenever I go, I was trying to create pictures of people and tell their stories. Then I started exploring more towards the Buddhist side of it, you know, because they're all Buddhist. And there are monasteries, first trying to understand from the monks side of life, you know, what they do, how they stay. What is their prayer rhythm, this and that, that I was trying to explore for some years now. I want to go back and explore the wild side side of it, you know, because they have snow leopards in that. So you need to go in certain times to find those snow leopards that adds another layer to that place. Every single time, you know, I try to keep on building on the same thing. So I want to be that guy who has taught maybe 15 places in absolute depth and created a nice long story through many, many years of visiting, rather than be the guy who visited 120 countries.
40:27  Yeah, that's, that's a really good thing. You know, I, I was in the same place. You know, before when I first started photography, I've been to I think, 27 countries. And after no 28. And after I started photography, for real, I've only been to an extra one country because I noticed the same way it's more interesting to go into that then all of these places, just going to the popular place, right? It's just, it's, it's incredible. When you see people just go to the main attraction, take one shot, a selfie, and then they go home, they like, don't look at the other place. You know, they didn't even go around the corner. And it's incredible. And yeah, I can totally resonate with that. Now, you know, when I want to talk a little bit about Nepal in the Himalaya, and I know how passionate you are about it. But one thing that I never heard is that what what really what really pull you about the Nepal in the Himalaya region that makes you really love that area compared to any other world? Because, you know, there are a lot of beautiful places around the world. Right. There are a lot of interesting culture everywhere. beautiful mountain tops as well as the landscape. But why Nipah? Why what keep pulling you into Nepal in the Himalaya region?
41:55  Yeah, that's a terrible question. Because I really don't know. I just don't know sometimes there are things which you can't explain. I think Himalaya is one of them. You have been to Pune. Basecamp. So you know it. So you know, my I can, that's my curious mind. I told you I look into Cosmos a lot. I look into a large number of things. And there are many sections of things that I will look into in much depth. And one of them is Himalayas. You know, if I look at my book cabinet right now, I think almost 50% is photography books. Other 50% is Himalayan books, you know, people who have climbed this wonderful mountains, I have, I've read almost every book possible in our field. And I don't even have a place to store those books anymore. Because that's how much I get intrigued by these mountains. Because the first time I saw it in my life, as I said, my travel photography began with Himalayas. The first time I put my eyes on it, I knew that okay, this is gonna be something very, very interesting for my future because I knew right then that I'm going to be coming back to this place over and over and over again. Because I don't know what's about it, you know, even when you go to Everest base camp, or you go to Annapurna base camp or any of these base camps, which is hard track, you don't really know if you think it's like you see in movies, people running around with full energy. No, you are, you are tired, you know, you are dirty, you are smelly stink like shit. So let's start painting and you know, everything is weird about that place. It makes you feel like what the fuck I'm doing here. But at the same time, I feel alive. You know, being in between all that madness. I feel good about it. So that's what I like about that particular place. It's a suffer fest, but at the same time, it makes you feel alive. I know. You're laughing a lot. I don't know what stinking part was funny, I guess. I don't know. But yeah, that's what makes Himalayas what it is, you know, lack of oxygen makes me feel good. And also, you know, like, one of my idols, you know, when it comes to I like people who live their life to the fullest without giving a damn and technically like, they know that life is so valuable. One of them is Reinhold Messner, if you know, Reinhold Messner, he is the first person to climb all 14 peaks, Himalayan peaks 8000 metres without supplementary oxygen. So I read a lot about him. Maybe I have some 20 books from him right now. Sitting in front of me as I speak. I read all of his books. I've seen every documentary that he has made. You know, these are the people who really make me want to go back to Himalayas because their passion is very contagious. And when you read the books and exactly why they go back, is exactly what you go back. I want to see everything there they have seen. So yeah, just a lot of things. You know, I said, it's very hard to explain. If you've never been to Himalayas, you'll never know. But once you go there, as I said, it is sufferfest but you'll enjoy the suffering of that place, you will come back much smarter and wiser. There's a reason why Indian monks and Nepali Buddhist monks go to the mountains to do their meditation. They can do anywhere but they still go to the extreme Himalayas, because there's something about that place which cannot be explained.
45:00  Yeah, I know it, I can, I can tell I can I can feel the same thing when I was in Annapurna. It's just something about the place that it felt magical. And the reason why I love a lot is that it always reminded me every time I go hiking, it always I always asked that question. I was like, Why? Why? Why am I here? Why do I put you through all this struggle, but as soon as you came down, you have a shower, and you just go, what is next? Right? What's the next mountain to go out to? And when you say that, it's just it cracked me up? Because it reminded me of that moment, every time you go up, and you look at this big wall in front of you, and you can't even see the summit, because they're so high and you go like, what am I doing here at 10pm at night, going into this mountain with all this crap behind me. But yeah, there's something about, you know, the achievement behind that there's something about the peacefulness behind it. And it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, one of the stories that I tell from one of the piece that I just released, it's about the freedom you get when you get out there, and it feels like, you know, everything just doesn't matter. So I can, you know, yeah, really
46:18  also, another reason for that is because, first of all, you're in a complete remote place, especially when it took off base camps and everything, you're cut off completely. There's no internet, there's nothing, you know, you just have you and maybe a guy who doesn't talk much. So you're not talking to him a lot. He just talks once in a while. So you're it's just you and the mountain and maybe a beer or a chai in your hand. And you're sitting there in the middle of nowhere. So these are the moments which we are missing right now, you know, because we're in such a fast life, social media, they send that phone buzzing all the time, in that place. You just realise that your phone, you're holding the phone, but it feels like useless. And because there's no internet, you don't know what to do with that phone in your hand. And then you throw it away and just look at what's in front of you. And just you look at lost in your thoughts, you know, you you get a break that your brain requires. And it starts processing things which have been lagging behind in the RAM. So yeah, it's like a nice reboost to your brain, and it helps you clear a number of things. So yeah, when I always say, you know, doesn't matter what the question is, you know, Himalayas are always the answer because it will give you answers for questions, which you didn't even know you had. So you know, that's what they do. And yeah, like, for instance, when I was in Annapurna base camp, like I told like you also said it's a suffer fest. It is the hardest trick I've done. An Irish base camp was hard, but it was okay. But Annapurna was absolute madness, you know, and I was not in my best form at that time, because I just came back from a trip to the US. I went to New York and all that things, and I came back and immediately, I went to Annapurna base camp without even trying to give myself a break because I just wanted to go to Himalayas, maybe because I saw New York and I really wanted a break from that city. So I went all the way to Himalayas. Annapurna base camp, it was bloody hard. It was raining all the time. It is not really comfortable. You know, I was wet from head to toe, every single day of the walk in six days is completely wet. And it was really, really hard. Same thing again, I asked myself the same question what the fuck I'm doing here. I could have been staying in Dubai and relaxing my warm home. But I was there anyways. So it happened. It is the best camp the first once it is the best camp for the first time when the rain stopped. And everything was visible under Pune in front of you. Extremely gorgeous. And then it was just a small break of 30 minutes and then it started raining again. I'm like shit, okay, now I need to walk back. You know, you know it walking down is harder than walking up to the base camp. So I'm like, I need to go down with all this rain again. My mind was like, please get rid of this place, you know, if you want to. And I was like, Can I call a helicopter get to get off this place because I don't want to walk again. So he sat down recently quarters right now in this weather. I'm like, Okay, let's walk. And I told my guide, how long is the walk to reach Pokhara which is the city we need to go to the city at the end of it. It takes for four nights of walk, you know, like every four nights, your stay in the mountains. And then finally you reach a point where you can go to the city. I'm like, No, I'm not going to stay the walk for four days in this rain. Let's do one thing how much is the kilometres he said almost 38 kilometres of walk to reach to the point where you can take a car to reach the city. I'm like, Okay, let's walk from now. It's seven o'clock in the morning. We will not stop for a single second. No food. No nothing. We are water bottles. We just keep bringing water. Are you up for the challenge? It's like no, no one does that. 38 kilometres in a rain downhill. You can't do that. I'm like, let's do it. And we worked nonstop. You know, I have that phone screenshot in my phone. I burned like 1000s and 1000s of calories. You know, maybe it was crazy. I never burned so much calories in my life. So 38 kilometres. We walked from seven am to 4pm nonstop, not a single break. We just kept walking because I wanted to get out of that place. You know, there are those instances also in MLS. It's not like always romance. So yeah, but that's what makes it interesting. So as soon as I came back, I reached my hotel in Pokhara. I took my shower, I felt good again. And then I came to the reception of the hotel. And the hotel had a number of maps of Nepal, you know, of all the base camps. I just came back from a base camp where it was. I had to walk 38 kilometres to escape. And now I was looking at this posters on the wall, and I'm like, which is this base camp? This amount of sleep? I'm like, Okay, this is my next one. When do I come back? So that's the mattress.
50:43  Yeah, no, I heard that story before. And, you know, it's just crazy. And I know how frustrating it can be when it's raining and all that stuff but doing 38 kilometres on the way down all the way to, you know, from Annapurna base camp. That's 5000 5000 Plus, right, and it's just crazy. Yeah, no doubt you burn all that calorie man, you got all the rain, you got going downhill all the gears, of course you burn all that calorie. But that's Yeah, that's really cool story, you know, and it's true, right. And I think this goes back to what we say earlier, a lot of times people don't see this struggle, about, about the journey. But I think what I noticed from, from the way you approach life, the way you approach your journey, is that you have a way to still enjoy the journey. Even if, you know, there are challenges now, you know, I know that is something that's very difficult to do nowadays, especially looking at everyone else's successes all the time, right? So for the listeners who kind of in that situation where they're like, Okay, I want I'm in a and I want to get to where I want to go next, right, which is my dream, whatever that may be. But this every time I hit a journey of challenges, I feel discouraged. So, you know, how can people enjoy the journey to get to where they want to be?
52:12  One day? I think I'm not an expert again, of this, because it's very, very much, it's up to each individual to choose their happiness. So my way, you know, is my way always your way, it doesn't mean it has to be the same way for both of us might, what I say may not resonate with someone else. So it's up to each person, each one has their own, you know, priorities and life and family and loved ones and etc. So yeah, it's totally different, you know, I can't preach because, you know, for even for a single example, is I'm not married. So if I say something, people will say, yeah, that's easy for you, because you're not married, I'm married, I have two kids, I can't do the same thing. So it can be different to different people. But yeah, you need to find your own peace, with how you can create that balance and feel good about the life that you have. You know, for instance, I was in Tajikistan, and it was one of those craziest, the craziest roads, you know, there, the place is beautiful, but the roads are horrible. It's next to Afghanistan. You can you're always next to Afghanistan, there's just a small river, which divides you and Afghanistan. It's it was at the peak of Taliban when I went there. So people are a bit scared to come, but they still came. So we are going through that journey. And you know, at one point, the road is so bad, so horrible, that you just your bones feel like they're all broken, you know, and one of my friend who was there, he's a corporate guy, and he has a job in Dubai in a luxurious place. And all that is taste. So he came on that trip. And he is not used to this things much. He likes adventures, but not this kind of adventure, it was a little bit too much for him. Because at the end of the night, you stay in a small little house. And it's not like a five star hotel. So everyday are struggling through the journey. I enjoy that. But he had some problems and happens in between the journey. We just stopped for a smoke and we both were smoking in a corner. And he's like, I don't know, I think I shouldn't have come on the strip because it's too hard for me. I told, first of all, just look at your surroundings. And you're standing right here having a smoke. Look at look in front of you. There's Afghanistan. And look at the right side. There's Himalayan mountains upon mountains. And you're here, you know, what are your colleagues doing right now? They're smoking in Dubai, of course, in their office, but what are they looking at the same blocks of city and the same stupid office they have to go back to what's next nine days, you're free, you know, you're in middle of nowhere. How many people should I visited this place which are visited right now? Maybe 5% of the world's population, you are the lucky one. You know, enjoy that moment. Because you are lucky enough to be here, you know? So that's how I put things into perspective. Whatever happens, always see it as one of those. You know, we have a chance to travel if you have that chance alone. You're already lucky enough compared to 80% of the world because others would love to do that, but they don't have the means or freedom to do that. So I think we're already lucky enough that we have this passion, we travel the world. And that's enough blessings, just count those blessings, and you will feel good about it. That is such
55:13  a good advice. And, you know, I think, going back to what you said earlier, it's about, you know, where do you put your focus on? And just hearing what is the story that you tell me, it seems like, you know, your your friend at that time was in a really good place, but his focus was on the negative part of it, and not the positive part of it. And that really changed a lot of perspective for a lot of people just shifting that tiny bit of perspective. Right. So, yeah, that's, that's a really good, you know, a really good advice. Now, you know, one of the thing that I'm interested in is, you know, you're I came across you in the NFT world, and you are, you know, one of the voice in NFT. World, a lot of people hear your wisdom and follow your wisdom now, what, what draw you into the NFT in the first place, and what made you stay in the space?
56:07  Yeah, that's super important for me, because NFT has not been one of those things, which has completely transformed my life, at least, in terms of my passion. Because I came, you know, as I said, I do workshops for a living, and my workshops are travel workshops, and need to travel to a place to do whatever I do. And that's my revenue, you know, that's my income. And that's all that's my sole income. That's the main thing, I don't do anything else. Even if I get commercial jobs in Dubai, I would just push it across, you know, to my friends, I would say you do it, I don't want to do this job, architectural, or whatever, you know, event photography, and never like all those things. Because I've quit my job with a very, very particular team, which is I want to travel and I want to take people along with me, and that's about it. So I do that full time. It was great. Till COVID came in, you know, when COVID came, we all know, world shutdown. And then travel stopped and my sole source of income came to an end. That was the biggest hit. And when you think of it, I stay in Dubai is such an expensive place. And travel has stopped. Everything that you have earned is now disappearing, like super fast pace, you know, like Dubai, it doesn't take much time for money to operate. So it's going through that really, really rough phase in my life where things are going really south. And I'm like, What the hell do I do now? 2020 is gone. 2021 is still the same. There are so many rules to travel, no one wants to travel because there's so many paper works and this and that. So they're just not really working. And I'm like, That's it. I'm done. What do I do now go back to Job, put the tie and suit and get back to work. That was almost a situation though. I didn't want to do that. So that's when NF T came into my life. You know, it came a little bit late. I wish I entered you one more earlier. But one of my friends who's into NFT He kept telling me because he knows exactly what I go through every single day. I mean, every single weekend we go together to shoot and that guy always says come to an empty come to an after you are going through this tough time. I think NFT is your answer. You know you can earn some money and pay your rents and at least take some break from your your hair start turning white what's going on with you. I'm like no NF T's this NF T's that it's a bubble. The typical bullshit that people say I used to believe all those things. So at the end of it, he finally convinced me one fine day he just said, please open a meta mask and come to an update. That's it. Today's the day. And we finally opened the meta mask and he convinced me to come I came in to Twitter, nothing I know nothing about Twitter. I know nothing about nfts I just entered with one follower being my friend who pulled me in. And then eventually I started interacting with people and I realised that the whole community thing which people talked about is actually true. You know, the people are different in NFT. At least during those days in the bull market, people are very, very active and very, very friendly. And everyone is trying to pull each other up rather than push each other down from like, Okay, this sounds interesting, this better than Instagram and all that. And finally, I came up with a collection and first Genesis collection, which was all my email and portraits, some of my best works, I put it out at a very affordable price. And within the first minute of launching that collection, one of my collectors just happened to collect it within the first minute of dropping it. He bought a pitcher at 0.5 at the end. During those days, it was like almost $2,000 I was like $2,000 for my pitcher. In the minute of dropping, I was like I had tears in my eyes because there's something which I never experienced before someone was valuing my work, whatever money money is secondary in that place. Someone valued it, you know, within a second within a minute of dropping. So I realised you know eventually as things moved on, I realised that this place is absolutely brilliant, you know, everything that I thought the illusions that I had was all wrong and yeah, since then I gave myself 100% to it. And it's been wonderful you know, after that have launched many many collections sold out many many collections, and no doubts That that is paying my rent, it's been my all kinds of things in all the bills that I have, it has helped me float through it. So it's been wonderful. Yeah, I think it's a blessing, which came at the right time. Otherwise, by now I would be back to work, maybe giving up all my dreams.
1:00:17  Wow, that's what a journey isn't it and, you know, you come in there and you know, you know, coming from somebody who think it's all, you know, all the objection that everyone can come in, don't want to come in from and then you finally convince come in and know you're here with, you know, one of the biggest boys in the NFT world, you know, sharing your wisdom and your stories in there. And I think it's just incredible. Now, for, you know, for for, for the people who cannot like jump in here and think like, okay, you know, NFT is just a money making scheme and all this stuff. Is there, is there, what's the future of NFT? For you? Like, is there anything that you are excited about the technology itself? Is there a culture a community? Or is there is it only solely about, you know, selling your art and being appreciated for for your work in a different
1:01:14  form? Yeah, it's multi layered. I don't even know how to get to this point. Because future who knows the future, you know, none of us know the future. So NFT is the same. Who knows? Right now, it's not just about the money. But money is important. And as a full time photographer, money is very, very important to stay alive and to follow the passion. So I appreciate the NFT space for the money it provides to everyone offers and puts a value to our work, you know, other than if you look at before, it is all about, come and shoot our restaurant will give you exposure come and shoot our wedding will give expert What the hell what we do the exposure, no one takes that for a bill. So yeah, that was the world we came from. And now here is a place where I have even collectors who always say bump your price. And sometimes throughout my journey, they always said increase your price, your work deserves more money. And they made me push my value all the way up, because they themselves forced, you know, it's one of those places where the people who are buying are not bargaining. They're either saying go up with your price not go down. So yeah, that's a very unique place to be in. And as far as future goes, I don't know, you know, I am just as I told you, I just go with the flow, whatever the flow is, I just go with the tide. So I'm sure you know, there are a lot of wonderful visionaries in nfts, a lot of wonderful collectors who have a great vision to what they want to do. So I'll leave it to them, I just go with their guidance. So I'm learning every single day, I'm no guru there. I'm just a student, every single day absorbing the space, learning something new and spilling it out to those people who don't know, so it's all learning from each other, which is happening there. So who knows the future, I hope it's bright. And like everyone says, we are just no tapped 1% of the potential of NFT and blockchain, there's a lot more to do. You know, I stay in Dubai. We see it here every single day, the wise adopting new and new ways to government. I mean, it's including new and new ways to adopt blockchain right now. If you lose your passport, and if you go to complain to the police, it becomes NFT it becomes it goes into blockchain. I don't know what the complaint becomes a part of blockchain or whatever. So there's a lot of things happening, real world uses to come you know, so I think there's a lot to do. And we'll just be there when it happens.
1:03:38  Yeah, no, that's incredible. I know your work is incredible. And you know, you're right. The two things that really were really struggling from the artist is you know, exposure people think that exposure will give us something and at some cases it does you know, the right exposure can give us benefit but in most cases it doesn't bring any benefit back apart from people you know, liking and following you. And you know, unfortunately we can't we can't you know, put a foot in a table from follows and likes and the other thing is the value of money how people are valuing it right? I think in collection in the NFT world, a lot of people value it more as as an art as an emotion as something that they they connect with well as in the real world. It's more like a commodity right? It's more like yeah, you just buy a print you know, like print is a print and of course there are people who really care about the art as well. But most people are just like, Okay, well you know, your photo is great, but IKEA sell it for 20 Exactly. What what I paid $500 for, for your friends. Right and that's, I think that is the biggest difference that you see in in in in the NFL is that wins Somebody appreciate you are they appreciate your art not, you know for what it is not not that it's jpg, not that it's, you know, how many pixel against how many pixel at 300 pa PS? DPI, right, but it's about the emotion, the photograph that connects from there. So
1:05:21  yeah, so that's a huge scope. Apart from that, you know, which is brilliant, and they're appreciating our art, which is brilliant. At the same time, look at where NF T's have taken us. You know, like, when I visited New York with my parents and my sister, we went to Times Square, my sister was like, this is Times Square, the biggest, greatest billboard in the world. Some of the best things are exhibited here. I'm like, Oh, that's so nice. And then we came back, that was in 2018. And in 2020, you want and this year, somewhere in this year slicker, if you remember, they slowly got a platform and ft platform, they display it works off their artists on Time Square, the same time square. So my image was there as well. And I sent it to my parents, my sister, my relatives that my told my sister, do you remember he said, The best of the best in the world gets displayed on this billboard? There is my work right now, you know, so that's NFT, I would never be on NFT. Amen. Sorry, on the Time Square, if not, for NFT NFT opens up that door, you know, it brings the world together. It has a great influence. Right now, it was exhibited in Miami, before that was exhibited in Venice, right now, like as having the exhibition in a beautiful place in Rome. So how many places you know we are going along within that one year span? Imagine this is just one year of work? Not even one year, nine months of work? So where did it take us in five years from now? So we've been given this time to Instagram, we have been giving this time, same amount of time and value to Facebook for all this years, where has it taken us? Maybe it has taken us some places. But still, this as NFT has done all these things, within nine months, it pays our bills, it gets us exhibited across the world, it connects us to the world of amazing collectors and artists coming together. So and it's just the beginning. It's just the tip of the iceberg. Imagine what would happen in the future, maybe who knows, our pitchers will be on boots Khalifa.
1:07:15  under percent, we're excited about that? Well, so both it's been, you know, such a great conversation with you. And you know, hopefully one day, I can bring you back in here because there's so much to talk about, you know, you, like I say, just as such a good people to talk to. Now. One thing that I always ask my guests when they come into this podcast is that if there is one advice that they could even, you know, they could give their younger self or people out there if there is one advice that you can only give out, what would that advice be?
1:07:53  I think I'll keep it quite generic, because that's the truth. Follow your passion, everything's gonna be okay. That's it. Whenever is the end of it? Yeah. When everything that's the end of your journey, something else shows up. And that's how life works. You know, if you're true to what you do, especially after COVID, I realised, you know, I said, the COVID story is a long story. And I literally thought that's the end of my whole journey, you know, the photography, end of it, let's go back to work, because I'm done. But that's when something happens. You know, a number of things have happened in COVID Unexpected jobs, some unexpected awards, I don't even participate in photography competitions. But during that time, there was no option I had to participate so that I can earn some money out of it and sustain myself till the COVID goes away. So I won awards, I got unexpected jobs from really big, big corporate companies, which kept me afloat, and then came NFT. And it completely changed the game. So whenever you feel that's it, that's the end of it. Just know that it's just a passing phase, and it will be okay. So yeah, follow your passion. Everything's gonna be okay. All right, well,
1:09:03  thanks a lot for that support, then, you know, for people who cannot want to check out your work and you know, your NFT and you know, some of these incredible stories behind the moments that you've captured, what is the best way to find your work as well as to connect with you.
1:09:21  I wish I could save go to my website. That would be very cool. But one of the Chinese companies stole my domain name. So I don't have my website right now. So that's over. So you can go to usual stuff, you know, Twitter, so worth chatting with. And then there's Instagram support city, I'm sure you can just link it up wherever you post it. So if you don't follow me, it's okay. Now with the 100%
1:09:44  I will definitely put all the links on the description. So you know, for people who are intrigued and want to see more of your work, they can do that. But look, it's been really good conversation. Really enjoy your passion behind Now, not only the stories, but also the, I guess, the passion behind your passion in photography, it's just so much energy when you, you know, when we talk about all of this, and I really enjoy that, you know, it's a really fresh breeze off air, you know, to to get that. So that's great. And, you know, thank you very much for being here. I know you're, you have a lot of things happening. So that's, you know, I really appreciate you putting aside your time to be here and
1:10:33  know when you chose the best day possible today, the Twitter space are down. I don't know what Elon Musk is doing. But sometimes he goes crazy. So he's blocked all the Twitter spaces today. So I think it's a good day to take a break. So the perfect day to be here.
1:10:50  All right, well, fantastic. Well, well, we can this hopefully you get a lot of benefit from there. There's so much wisdom and there are a lot of good storytelling that man I just could hear it for days in and day out. Now. If you haven't already followed suit both please do check his work out like you know, his work are incredible. A lot of his wildlife is absolutely stunning. I actually when I first saw suppose work, it was more about the wildlife. So I thought he was a wildlife photographer until I came across some of these other work. So do check him out. He have a passion in photography. And he showed that in many, many ways, and I really enjoy that. So thanks a lot for being here. Thanks a lot for listening and tuning in if you are still here. And don't forget, hit to hit the subscribe button if you want to hear our next artists. But also leave a quick review. Let me know what you want to hear more of let me know what some of the things that you enjoy from this podcast or if you have a certain artists that you want to hear in this podcast. But with that being said, well, thank you very much for being here. And I'll see you next week. So both Thank you very much for your time and your wisdom and yeah, I'm sure we'll come across in an adventure someday, somewhere along the you know, around the world. But with that being say, I guess we'll see you around in Twitter spaces.
1:12:18  For sure, Stanley. Thanks so much. Take care
Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Ep 53 - How Dilek risks her life to document the rough time during the pandemic so that our future generation can remember this unprecedented time in years to come

Hey Wicked Hunters, I'm excited to have multi-international award-winning photographer F. Dilek Uyar. Dilek was born in Çanakkale. After completing her primary and secondary education in this city, she entered Gazi University, Faculty of Law in Ankara Turkey. When she graduated, she started her master's degree in Labor and Social Security Law at the same university. She is still a lawyer in a company in Ankara. She also teaches photography classes at a university in Ankara.
For 5 years, she has spent most of her time on photography. She likes taking travel, street, and documentary photos. She likes telling stories of people she meets during her travels and cities with her photos. For 4 years, she has been working on social responsibility projects and trying to photograph socially important issues.
As a woman photographer, lawyer, and mother from Turkey, she made many speeches in Universities, Photograph Associations and as a TEDx Speaker, she touched on the significance of being a woman and saying yes to change. She also takes part in social awareness projects.
Her biggest aim is to increase social awareness and recognition of her stories and continue inspiring young women in her country.
She joined many international and national exhibitions and won over 200 awards. She is still a contributor photographer for National Geographic YS and National Geographic Turkey.
You can learn more about Dilek's work on:
https://twitter.com/FDilekUyar
NFT - fdilekuyar.eth.co
Website - https://www.dilekuyar.com/ 
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Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com  
Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr 
 
For those of you who want to see connect with Stanley Aryanto, you can go to the following:
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0:00  I risked my life I risked my children's life I go to the hospital and take photos, or one month after 100 year, when we all died, people will remember these times from our photos. This is the power of photography, which photography your writing history, can you imagine you will be the part of history with your photos. This is something being immortal in my opinion.
0:36  Hey, weekend is Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share photographers journey and show how photography has given us hope, purpose and happiness. And today we have someone who's very special. I've come across her work, a documentary artist who is passionate about sharing the world story and going to her photos, it's taken my breath away. I have heard a few times, you know of her sharing some of her story, as well as speaking some of the issue in this world. And I just want to be able to share her voice to more of you out there. So today, let's welcome Dilek Hey, Dilek how are you? I believe you are from Turkey at the moment, right?
1:25  Yes. Thank you so much. I'm from Turkey, and living in Ankara, the capital city of Turkey. And thank you for your kind in like,
1:37  oh, yeah, 100% You know, I really enjoy listening to your story, I really enjoy the photos that you have taken, right, they are so full of emotion. And I believe you have some approach project as well, which you know, we're going to talk about a little bit later to, to evoke emotion and to share and help share a message to your photography. And I think that is fantastic. Now, before we go through all of that, could you just share with us who is Dilek? And how did you start photography in the first place?
2:12  I'm Dilek, mother of two. And actually, my profession is law. I'm a lawyer in Turkey. And I always believe that people should have some hobbies in their daily life to take a breath during the hectic routine of daily life. And I was a skydiver before starting to take photos. And I was always saying that Skydiving is my passion. And it's my love. I can't forget it, I can live it and I can find another love. But with some health issues, I should have the site give a decision and stop making skydiving and I try to find something to focus and to make me feel good. And just take a camera at that time because it was so popular in Turkey 12 years ago, people were getting cameras and starting to take photos up to that time I never into photography, actually. Even when we go to somewhere I don't like I never like taking selfies or taking photos of the places I visit. But I decided to get a camera and when you let me know unless you thought that you know everything. And in the beginning of my photographic journey, it was same. I was thinking that just taking a buying a brand new camera is enough to take some good photos. But I get a good camera at that time. Then I realised that it's not enough. But I still don't realise at that times the importance of the people behind the camera. I was just thinking the camera is okay. I just don't know how to use it. So I went to a course to learn how to use the camera. And then I started to understand that the people behind the camera is one of the most important thing, not the camera. And photography is not just clicking something when you're just walking or travelling around, it's something special. It has some power. And I've fallen in love photography and I started to force myself to learn it in the best Today, and my journey starts in like that to add few years ago, Oh, it wasn't easy as a woman photographer from Turkey as a mother from Turkey, because our priorities are determined before you should be a wife, you should be your mother. And then you should work in your daily professional work, the hobbies and that the kinds of things are not important. And you don't need to make something like that. Actually, so many people think we're saying, Why are you making something like that is nonsense, and something, etc. But I try, I also tried to change something. And try to show that if a woman wants to sexist, she can, instead of all the difficulties that she faced, and I've worked at, I've worked a lot, I fall down, but that I get up again, and I've worked more I work more and, yes, right now, I'm happy where I am actually.
6:21  Wow, that's such an inspiring story. You know, I can relate to you because I use Well, I was born in Indonesia, you know, where the culture is very similar. I feel like the main purpose for us to live is to go to school, get a good grade, so we can get a good job, get married, get a house and die, right. Exactly. So you know, when when you share that I really can relate to them. Because I know exactly how the pressure from not only the people around you, but the culture right. So that is incredible. And you know, I feel like for you, it's much more, a lot more challenging, right? Because like you say, You're a mother of two, you're a woman. And you know that that makes things a lot more challenging. Now, when when you first pick up a camera, so I love this, I love how you share that, you know, a good camera is not the thing that take good photo, and hopefully the people who are kind of in the beginning of their journey starting to understand this, right? Because I really wish I know this a lot earlier. Now. What? What makes you love photography. So you say that, you know, you're looking for a new hobby after you're skydiving, which is fantastic. I always wanted to be a skydiver, by the way, you know, so you picked up your camera, you started to learn photography. But what makes you fall in love with it, what makes you stay and keep taking photos and going through telling, you know some of the most powerful stories that you have told to your photography.
8:13  I was living in a big city, in good conditions in in a good social status. And my holidays was in five star hotels at that time. As a lawyer I was earning good and my husband also earning good. And the people around me was just focused on getting some new clothes, new houses, new cars, and something like that. I was living in a society like that. And earning money means at that times, is just getting in buying a new house new clothes, new and brand, bags, shoes, etc. But when I started to take photos, I was visited the rural parts of Anatolia that I never been before. And I see how kind people are there. How they open all the life and all their houses to you how they make guests to their dinners to their breakfasts. And that's really make me surprise. Everything was different from the life I was living in the big city and everything started to change in my mind. A good photographer once said that you can even say that you are seeing and understanding the world. Before taking photos, this is so right I understand it after I started to take photography. And I see that the things that we want to improve that we want more, make us less actually. Because I saw this in Anatolia, people were so polite people were so kind people were so humbled. But we all forget bad things in big cities, in my country, and touching the people's story, touching their life, listening their stories made me so happy. I was also interested in literature, and I was writing some stories, and writing some papers on some important names, web pages in Turkey before and I realised that photography is writing a story, actually, you're writing their story with your one frame, one single frame. And then we read the stories or novels written in past times, we can understand that, oh, they are reusing these things, they were living in that way. So they are also a part of history. But if it is a novel or a story, you can think that that writer is imagining that things. But if the topic is photography, people believe that people show the reality. And I decided to tell their stories with my photos, because with the technology with the time, so many cultures, so many traditions are disappearing. We need to document all that things and tell them stories. My travel photography journey started like this, because I love this, I feel myself that I'm finding new treasures. When I visited that parts of Turkey, I never had a chance in a five star hotel before that makes me fall in love in photography. Wow,
12:45  that is such a cool story. And I definitely can relate, you know, I was someone who really care about the materialistic things and I would earn fine money to be to be able to buy more stuff. And you're you're absolutely right, you know, the less we have, the more we appreciate things and make it's funny because the less people have that, it seems like the Kinder they are and the less selfish they are, which exactly what you say, now. I really enjoy the way you tell a story to your photography, right? They are so powerful, they speak to you. Now, when you go out there and you start travelling and you look at this different culture, this different point of view, and you capture them and tell that story through your photography. What are some of the things that you look through? What are some of the thing that goes to your mind, so that you could tell you know this story in such a profound way?
13:54  I would totally in Antalya, our culture is so rich, so colourful, so contrast and you can imagine the philosophy between so many things. For example, when I went to moolah Promacta first, I see that people woman are building some six cars on their heads. Not just because they're, they believe Islam, that scarfs was so different and they were putting fresh flowers on this scarves. And I asked them what all of you putting that fresh flower because in other parts of Anatolia, I never saw something like that. And then they answer me and they said that because they want to smell like fresh flowers to their husbands. And that makes me I can explain the I have feelings that I feel when I first hear that this was so unique, this was so special. So cayenne. And this is how Anatolian people look to the world actually, they don't have money to get perfumes or something like that. But they find something special like this. People should hear that story. That's why I started to take their photos, for example, and tell their story. Wherever you go, somewhere, when you try to communicate them, you can understand their story. If you can't become one with them, if they can't share their story with you, you can understand them. And if you don't understand them, you can't tell their story in a proper way. When I go somewhere to take photos, I never get my camera in the beginning and take photos, I started to talk with them. I started to understand with them, they I share my story, they share their story and after understand what they are leaving what they feel how to be a person in that place, then I'm taking photos and maybe that's why my photos are a little bit different from the other photos because I can understand their story. And if he can't understand someone's story can tilt.
16:50  Yeah, that's incredible. I really love that I really love that approach. And you're right, most of us kind of go out there and bring our camera and take a photo. Because it looks appealing. It looks good not to tell the story. Right? Well, you know it, the story might come afterward. But I love your approach. I love your approach on understanding the story and understanding what is the best way to share that through your photography. And I think that's just so powerful. Because, like you say, you know, if you don't understand this story, then how can you capture it in a way that tell their story? Wow, that is just incredible. That's incredible, I'm sorry, that it just really take, you know, my breath away. And I really enjoy that. And, you know, that's I mean, I really can see that, you know, I really can see that through your photography. They really speak they really have an emotion and I could just imagine that, you know, you understanding what they're thinking through what what the emotion that they have before they that you capture these photos, right? I mean, coming from a landscape photographer, or you know, Astro photographer, and nature photographer, I don't get that as much right. But that is such a great lesson to learn. Thank you for sharing that.
18:13  Thank you for giving this opportunity to me actually. I love landscape photos, I still photo graphy also macro and wide love, but they are not my cup of tea actually. Because I love listening to people's story I love touching their life, and the way of touching their life is taking photo. Because I'm not just touching the button of my camera, I'm talking with them, I'm sharing time to them and they are sharing their times. With me. That's why I love photography.
19:00  Wow. It's you know, it's I really enjoy listening to you talking because you have I can hear the passion, the love for the people and the love for photography from your from your story. So that is just incredible. Now, one thing that I'm wondering right when you when you come across this. So for example, you know, coming from a nature photographer, or an astro photographer, I would think about, you know, what are the different places and think about, you know, how it could have looked like, where the landscape is where the light is. Now, one thing that I'm interested in, right is how do you pick your destination? Do you have a certain criteria, a certain thing that interests you, or do you just kind of travel and see what what story you can tell from there.
19:58  It's changing time to time actually because, for example, I was know, that woman wearing some interesting scarves on mulatto, Magda, and I go there. There are some photography places in all around the world, you know, also in Turkey, and we know that places, but the challenging thing is going that places and taking some different photos from the photos that taken before, that is the most challenging one, because it's not easy if people go there and take some good photos before. But I love challenges during all my life. And also sometimes I'm trying to find some places, which will sweet my topic. For example, I decided to go a city in Turkey, for to take photos. Before going there, I'm making some readings, I'm trying to understand what is popular in that city or in that town? What are their traditions, and then when I go, that's the I'm trying to find that things, every part of Anatolia, I have so many different things to photograph. So probably I will continue taking photos in my country. And it's easy to understand their story to be one with them. And that makes me more comfortable while taking photos. Because if you want to have tourists in a country, it's not easy to understand the whole story, you're just taking photos, just like a tourist and you can jump into the deep of distorted debuff to cities deep of the people. Some I love taking that kinds of photos. And usually I'm trying to find the local people who will help me in that areas to show and to also explain their culture deeply. I'm choosing the destinations or the place like that.
22:24  That is incredible. Yeah, I love that. So when you you know, go to this places like and you know, to your photography, you have taken a lot of photos that have a profound meaning to it right? There is such, there is a lot of message behind your photography, at least from what I have seen. Now, do you have any some sort of mission or any purpose that you're trying to achieve from this messages? Or is it more about just the storytelling and just so happen this, you know, the impact that you give from the photo, you know, kind of just turned out that way.
23:08  Actually, before winning natural thermal photography, photography contest, I was just taking single photos and trying to tell the stories of the cities or the people I visited during my travels. But after 2017 I decided to also make photo projects, make documentary photo project because sometimes just a single photo is not enough to tell a big problem to take attention to a important social issue. So I started thinking, What can I do? Because I believe the power of photography, I believe that I believe how photography can reach the millions if the photographer use it in a proper way. We see we saw these examples in art history. So my first long term project was with cancer patients because I want to take attention to the importance of early diagnosis. I I believe that if you're if someone is afraid of something, they can be careful. But if you make advertisements and saying that everything will be great, you will be healed. Everything will be great. People stop afraid of that illnesses like cancer. So I want So, tell the story of Zeynep. She was one of my main model in my project. She was healing too. And her story was so heartbreaking and so emotional. But then unfortunately and unexpected, Lee, we lost her. Cancer made a metastasis, and we lost her. And I understand how things can change quickly. And from her story, I wanted to broke people's hurt, I want to make them sad, because I believe that if they become sad, they can get Doctor controls. Early diagnosis, if they have some problems, the doctors can get that in early stages. I've worked with cancer patients. And then COVID comes our lives two years ago, you know, and everything was like a science we film. We were watching from our computers, from our televisions, what's happening in China while everything was so far, and it was like, We will not affect with these things. And then it becomes the whole world's reality. And after World War Two, nothing affected whole world like that. And I can stop myself to take the photos of that times, because as a photographer, I can't change the history, but I can show it. That was my motto. So I tried to get permission to go to the intensive care unit to go to the hospitals to go to the streets to take the photos. But especially in the beginning of the pandemic, there were no vaccine, even they were not trained once. Proper treatments for COVID No one let me permission. But then I use the power of social media I made. I wrote some tweets. And first of all Ankara municipal to hear my voice. We were all in lockdown in Ankara, but they get permission for me. And I photograph the disinfection periods of all public transformation areas or the other places. And then I get permission from Gaza University, hospital, I risked my life, I risked my children's life. But I go to the hospital and take photos for one month, not just one day, just for today, I went that hospital every single day for months, just to make something different and stroke because after 100 year, when we all died, people will remember these times from our photos. This is the power of photography, with photography, your writing history, and can you imagine you will be the part of history with your photos. This is something being immortal in my opinion, I may be die, but people will remember my name with that photos. And this is so important for me. I get all that risks, and I photograph all the parents all parts of I choose photos in all parts of the hospital. And that project Mr. That's in almost all photo contests. So I'm so happy with that project and after NatGeo my point of view to photography is changed also and I also tried to take attention to these social importance issues and take photos of them. I've worked with seasonal workers children because you know with COVID Our children started education from far away from laptops from computer but the The economical situation is not same in every part of Turkey and so many children don't have internet connection, don't have laptops, and they couldn't get the education they should get from the government from their country. So I made a photo project to take attention to that. unequality actually, something like that.
30:27  Wow, that is incredible. What a story. So I'm just trying to, you know, put my thoughts together here. You know, that's just so incredible what you did, you know, I saw your, your project, your photo series around COVID. And it's absolutely incredible right? Now, what, what going through your head, what makes you want to risk your life, I know that, you know, you, you, you you want, you kind of mentioned about leaving a legacy, being able to be part of the history. But in order to do that, you're not only risking yours, yourself, but also, you know, like you say, risking your daughter. So
31:11  how, actually, both of them.
31:15  And you're doing it for a month, right? So what was that month look like? Like, just take us through, you know, the day in the life of Dilek. During that one month, when you were going back and forth to the hospital to document this incredible pandemic?
31:35  Actually, it wasn't easy, but I couldn't stop myself. And you can't imagine how many? No, I heard during the wall permission process. Everyone's saying, No, you should stay at your home, you're a woman, you should take care of your children and stay at home. And normally, it's hard for me to want some thing from someone and to ask some help from the others. But I couldn't stop myself because I was seeing that how COVID affecting the whole world. And I couldn't stop myself, I couldn't think anything. And I was good. I was willing to close on me going to the hospital, taking photos during the whole time. And during at 5pm. For Turkish time, I was leaving the hospital coming home, taking the cloths on me in front of my house, putting them in a bag. And then with the clean cloths in me, I was going home but also I was putting some scarf on my hairs because I don't want to affected my children if my hair gets some wires or not. I was washing my clothes with hot water in ocean machine. Also making a shower with hot water. And I wasn't coming together with my children, not just one month, after one month. The doctor suggested me to live separately with my children for one month too. And you can't imagine how hard it is how hard it is. I love being close to the people. I love being close to my children. I love hugging them. I love touching them. But I couldn't make this and I was just sitting in front of my computer making some Instagram talks or something like that. And I was so curious. I realised that I'm checking my favour almost all the time. And I was thinking that I get infected and I will gonna die. And I was just praying for not infecting my children. It was easy while I was in hospital, but it wasn't easy while I was waiting at home and thinking if I infected or not. And I get 20 kilos during that period. I was just eating I was just eating. And during my pregnancies. I didn't get that weight actually. But the full periods really affected me so much. Oh, also emotionally, too. But thanks God. I didn't affect it. I'm not in that period during the Wu COVID times I never effected. It's surprising. I'm lucky, I guess. Maybe that's why I go that gut, maybe God chose me to make that project because being one month in hospital and being so close to the patients was not easy, actually.
35:24  Yeah, wow. That's, that's incredible. You know, I saw the documentary on I can't remember what what TV station it was. But I saw a documentary on how hotel what are the different routine that the hotel have to go through when they accept people for quarantine, and it was in it was crazy. So that's why I was very interested to hear what was that, you know, journey like for you. And, you know, doing that for a month and a little bit more. That's, that's just crazy, you know, the amount of dedication that you put in there. It's, it's unprecedented. And I admire that very much. Now. I'm still curious, right. So you document all this incredible photos, and events that had happened during probably going to be one of the global event one of the, you know, an event that affected globally, like you say, you know, ever since the World War Two. Now, when you when you kind of, you know, put all the when you kind of put all the intention together and you tell yourself, I want to document this thing, I want to be able to go into these places where the people are infected, where the people are getting affected in the most, how do you go about getting that permit? Because like you say, you have come across a lot of nose. And I could imagine, right, what people thinking when they hear this was like, Are you crazy? Like no, is they home? So what? How did you end up getting that permit and being able to actually document this event?
37:22  First of all, I was just sitting at home in the beginning of first COVID. Case detected in 11, march in Turkey. And I was in hospital in May. During that two months, I was trying to get permission. But first of all, I didn't think going on the hospitals and taking some photos, I was thinking that this period will end in a few weeks at least. But I was just sitting at my home trying to see something different. What can I show that home? I made something I made something different, actually. But it wasn't enough for me. There was a war outside. And I can be part of that historic historical times. So I get calls with so many people. But the only thing I heard was No. First of all, they were saying that you are not a journalist. And even the journalists are coming here and taking one or two days, but you want to stay and take photos so many times so it's impossible. And it and when I talked with someone they were saying, yes, taking that photos can be a good idea. But our hospital has some public relation. Ship departments. And there's a guy he is taking some photos he can take to Yes, anyone can take photos but taking some good photos is something different. So it wasn't easy. It wasn't easy. But finally, while I was making an Instagram talk at that times at Doctor heard my voice and he said that Mr. Like you can come and take photos if you want in my hospital. I'm taking photo I'm trying to take some photos, but I'm in the beginning of my photography journey. And I can I open the doors to you and you can teach me how to take photos. I said okay, but it was incredible. Everything was done. becoming so easy. I wasn't used to that everyone should send me no. And I want the hospital. We talked with the director of the hospital, he was so kind to, and he said that you can start now. And I said, No, I didn't come with proper clothes to take some photos. I'm viewing sweets right now. So, okay, I will come together and start everything started in that way. I, after all that periods I find a way to take photos. And also I wrote a paper to governments. Because I want to take some photos in government hospital and Institute hospitals to and people liked me. They said that they will never answer you. system because, you know, so many people writing papers to them, but they never answered. After one month, they answered me. In that paper, I explained, who am I what is my aim, what I want to do with that photos. And they led me to take some photos still in city hospital. And after working in Gaza University, hospital, I went to city hospital to take some photos, but it was just for two days. And it wasn't enough to take some really strong photos. Because when you're a foreigner in a place, they all get nervous, and you can't catch the natural body language. At the time, being in one month in Ghazi University Hospital was so important because they use to me, they get used to me, they stop seeing me, I become one with them. And they just forget me, they were just thinking there's a crazy woman taking all the time. So they stop thinking at me. They stop worrying about me also, because in the beginning, when I first go to hospital, they were a little bit furious and worrying about me because I could infected myself too. And I can go into hospital as a patient. But they understand and they see how I'm obeying the rules and don't making something stupid at the hospital. So yeah, I become invisible. Oh, and get all that photos.
42:47  That is such an incredible story. And you know, what I love about it is that you you persist, right? You don't give up, you keep going, you keep knocking on the door and eventually door open. But once the door open, you know you you do it the right way you follow the rules and making sure that you're not adding the problem, you know, adding to the problem. And I admire that very much. Because, you know, it's hard to be out there and documenting these things, you know, all these incredible events, right? But doing it in a way that doesn't create more harm to the rest of the people. I think that is just incredible. So massive congratulations for you, you know, you highly deserve to get the award for that. I mean, it's just such an incredible story. So we you know, moving on from that we talked about earlier before the podcast and us, you mentioned it yourself that that basically, you know, once you won that award with the Nat Geo, you started to look things differently starting to work more on a longer term project and looking through the different ways that you can get that you can share the voice of issues that is important. Now, share with us, you know, with the audience, what are some of the project that you are working on right now? And what is your mission behind that?
44:26  Right now I'm working on a project to take attention to climate change because climate change is one of the biggest problems that the humanity and the world faced right now. And there are some harmful effects of coal mines to the environment and it's affected the Climate change also And we should find some alternative energy sources. This can be changed from the geographical station of your country or your location. But there are so many alternative station but especially after the war between Ukraine and Russia, the cool months become more important, aka, some, I want to take attention to that point, and make a long term project to show all that things deeply. And I'm working with them right now. Oh, I went to some coal mines for five times. And I will continue going there and taking photos. It's not an easy project for me. Also, it wasn't easy to get permissions again. Probably I always love something challenging. Because when you make something like that, you also inspire the young ladies in your country. This is important. For me, being an artist is not just taking some good photos in my opinion, being an artist is also inspiring the young generations with your stand with your thoughts with your speaks with your stand with your also behaviours. So I'm trying to do my best as an artist. I'm trying to be a role model to them. So yes, it's not easy. It's not easy for me to do take photos in cool minds, because I don't like I have some claustrophobic problems. And I can stand in close areas in dark, but I'm going in crude minds. Can you imagine how it was challenging for me also. But yes, some good photos are coming. I was so excited, especially after some shoots and I sent them to some photo contest and seeing that they are choosing as editor pique and shortlisted in some context is also making me happy. Because I didn't finish the project. Right now. I just send some of them as single photos. But what I get was so helpful. So I'm so hopeful with my new long term project too.
47:50  Wow, that is incredible. Yeah, look, I used to be an engineer and I used to work in aluminium refinery. So I know how difficult it must have been for you to get, you know, permission to get in there. Especially to take photos. I know, mining companies doesn't like people doing that, right.
48:11  There are three kinds of mining companies. One is under the control of government, one's private. And also there are illegal coal mines, they don't have any permission. If someone see and find that cool ones, they destroyed them. I find some two illegal coal mines. And I will go there and take some photos soon. It will also be so dangerous for me because being in an illegal coal mine means also risking my life again. And just one month ago, an explosion happens in one of the biggest coal mines that I was, I was planning to shoot to. So it's not easy. Yes, I'm risking my life again. But something good cannot happen. If you don't take risks. In my opinion, comfort zones are our most barrier, in my opinion, when you take out of your comfort zone. Something good has happened. In my opinion.
49:31  That is so great. I totally agree with that. And yeah, like just you know, rules and regulation to keep the mind safe. The is probably what's making them illegal. So going to a coal mine that's illegal, going to be a lot more dangerous. So please do take care of yourself when you go out there. I know how dangerous it could be, you know, being an engineer working on there. And yeah, it's just so many hazards and so many things. would go wrong in no time. So make sure that you take care of yourself. But climate change is something that I feel, you know, I feel powerful. I feel Yeah, powerfully about because I feel like there's there is not enough urgency around that. And it's, you know, I used to live in Canada, I see how quickly ice caves and glaciers disappearing within the short two years, two and a half years that I was there. So just imagine what's going to happen in 1015 20 years, right? We're not even talking about decades here, we're talking about years. So I'm so happy that you're doing this, you know, in, in a sense that to bring more voice out there to bring more awareness out there, but make sure that you are safe, because we love you. And we want you. We want you to be around. So yeah,
50:59  thank you. I'm trying my best. But, yes. Let's think positive things and fingers crossed.
51:11  Yeah, fantastic. All right. Well, you know, it's been a pleasure, we're coming to the one hour mark is such a pleasure to hear a lot of story from you. And, you know, when you finish the project, perhaps you could come back to the podcast and share a little bit about that project about, you know, the impact that it has been give it has given? I think that would be amazing to hear. But one question that I always ask my guests, you know, and you say to yourself, I, as a as an artist, we have the responsibility to share our vision to share our voice with the younger generation or with the rest of the world. So if there is one advice that you could give, either to young, younger yourself or maybe to your daughter, or maybe to anyone in the world, right, just the one advice, what would that one advice be,
52:06  um, that choosing one advice is not easy, actually. But if I should choose just one, I can advise them to work so much, and not race with the others, but race with yourself. You should be a better person. Before the person yesterday, just raise with yourself, not the others. And don't keep, don't leave working work so much. Because I believe that if someone works so much, he can succeed, she can succeed. Just
52:51  wow, that is such a great advice, especially, you know, in photography area, or in the artists area, you know, the artists, community, you know, there is a lot of competition, there is a lot of people a lot of impostor syndrome, you know, people are feeling that their heart is not good enough compared to other people. So, I believe that this is such a great advice. And it's such an important one too. So thank you very much for sharing your wisdom, your story, as well as your insights right? To all of this unique experiences. Now, if this, if the audience want to find more about your photography about the project that you're working on, or simply just want to get to know you better, what is the best way to find you?
53:46  My web page is one of the best way to find me. Also, I have an Instagram page and twitter account. They can find everything in that three platform error information about me.
54:03  Fantastic. All right, well, you know, we'll put that under description. So if you want to find out and get in touch with Dilek, then feel free to do so. But thank you very much for being here. Dilek it's been such a pleasure. It's been a great conversation. I love hearing your story. I love hearing your wisdom and I am sure that the audience out there will get so much value from this. So thank you very much for your time and I very much appreciate having you here.
54:36  Thank you so much, Stanley for inviting me to this podcast and giving this opportunity to me thank you so much.
54:46  No, no worries at all. And you know, like I love having a female in my podcast because there are a lot of male photographers out there and it's proven to be more difficult finding female coming to the podcast and like you say, right. You know, so I believe that's important to you know, to, to speak their, their voice as as a female or a male, right, whichever you are, but we know that the male are a lot more dominant in this in this in this niche. So thank you very much for being here and for having that courage not only to voice your messages, but also to actually go out there and knocking on doors and doing the things that most people don't want to do to share the social issue. I find a lot of inspiration for that and I admire you for that. So yeah, fantastic.
55:48  Thank you. Thank you so much.
55:51  All right, well, we can't do this thank you very much for Lucy listening in and man, that was a great podcast it's just so much wisdom so much great stories behind that. So make sure you check Deluxe photo there is so many great gems and when you go to her photo, you can feel the emotion that she tries to tell to those photographs. So let us know in the comment or in the in the review how you feel about this podcast. If you enjoy this particular episode or any other episode, don't forget to subscribe. And let me know if there is other photographer other artists that you'd like me to have an interview in this podcast. Well, with that being said, we can hunters. Thank you very much for listening, listening. today. I'll see you guys next week. Keep creating and keep shooting. Until next time

Ep 52 - How Tomasz started Frames Magazine & community during the pandemic by focusing on his vision and taking it one step at a time

Hello Wicked Hunters, 
Happy New Year to you and we're kicking off the new year with Tomasz - Founder of Frames Magazine. Tomasz Trzebiatowski is a photographer and independent publisher. Aside from FRAMES, he is also the editor-in-chief of the FujiLove Magazine for users of the Fujifilm X and GFX camera systems. His photographic interests lie predominantly in fine art, music, and street photography. He is also a classical pianist.If you want to learn more about Frames Magazine, you can go to:FRAMES Magazine: www.readframes.comFRAMES Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/framesmagazine/FRAMES Instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/frames_magazine/
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Website: podcast.thewickedhunt.com  
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Don't forget to let us know your favourite part of the Podcast in the comment below and subscribe
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0:00  Trade started parallel with COVID. Now, when it comes to steps, you know, I had the vision and I made the decision myself is it's just gonna happen. So step by step learning what was there to be to be learned and overcoming any kind of obstacle which was there, you know, like looking for printers day by day, step by step, I was following my plan. And the only thing which was kept me going was my very clear vision.
0:34  Here, we get hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artist journey and share how photography has given us hope, purpose and happiness. And today, we have a special guest from someone who not only passionate about photography, but he built a platform where photographers can share their photography with more people out there. And you know, as artists, that's how much we love to share our photography. So I'd like to welcome Tomash from frames magazine, and he built this community as well as you know, the publication. And it is one of the reason why I want to bring him here. So too much how are you? You know, thank you for coming into the podcast. I'm so excited to talk with you.
1:25  Yeah, thank you so much, Stanley. I'm excited myself. Thank you so much for inviting me over and yeah, very happy to, you know, to talk about whatever your listeners would like would like to know, you know about the story about about the magazine, so on. And Greetings, everyone from snowy, snowy Switzerland. That's where I'm based. It's finally getting cold over here. And also the the real winter is taking over. Yeah, getting ready for Christmas.
1:54  sounds incredible. You know, most people I'm here in Bali, and I used to live in Canadian Rockies for two and a half years. And most people think Bali is paradise, but I'm missing the winter so much.
2:07  Especially if you're living close to the Rockies. Yeah, it's like a similar surroundings in a way, you know, to to some parts of Switzerland or the other way around to Switzerland is similar to some parts of Canada. So yeah, 100 Definitely. Yeah, I would prefer to be sitting in valley right now to be honest.
2:27  Well, you know, it's really cool. Like, I come across frames magazine from my mentee, actually, he, he introduced me, it's like, Oh, you gotta check out this Facebook group and the publication. So I got into there. And now it's just, I was just blown away by what you are doing in the, for the community. So before we get to all that, right, we're going to talk a lot about, you know, what, what you're doing, what your vision, what you're planning and so forth. But before we got all that, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself, and what attracted you to photography and what keep you from, you know, keep doing this? Because we all know, photography is not the easiest profession to earn from.
3:14  Yeah, well, so I don't even know where to start, right. Like, every time somebody asked me about, tell us, tell us a little bit about yourself. You know, the problem is, the years are passing. I'm getting older. So this little bit is getting bigger. But yeah, okay, let me let me try to put it in a nutshell, you know, I am a educated musician, classical, classical pianist, you know, so that's what I started. That's what I learned. And that's what I still do. up to these days today. You know, I'm still working part time at the local college of music here in Lucerne, Switzerland. So I was into, you can say, into arts, you know, forever. I mean, I was into into music. My father was introducing me to, you know, paintings photography as well, you know, so the kind of art in general was was over, always around. But it wasn't until I was I was 25 I will say, when I really discovered photography, you know, I was busy practising the piano, this takes a lot of your time, you know, but, in in the year 2000, something special happened. I I got the chance to travel to Antarctica, as a musician, as a classical pianist. You know, I went on a on a cruise on a two weeks cruise and I was supposed to play you know, for the guests, make some music. And that was when I for the very first time in my life, you know, both had both a camera photographic camera and my own camera, because I thought you know, going to Antarctica it's a good enough reason to have a camera with yourself right? So that's, that's when I bought my very, very first camera and In the beginning, you know, I went on the trip, I came back started learning about everything. What's involved, you know, digital, this was a digital cameras, camera, right? So I learned some analogue photography before from my father, he was he was into it, but my very own camera was digital. And if I remember correctly, I think it was three megapixels camera or something like this was Canon PowerShot G two, I remember, remember exactly what it was. But anyway, I was hooked. You know, I came back, I immediately got excited about capturing what I see in front of me on, on images on on, you know, on photographs. Yeah, rest is history, you know, and I keep going to today, I somehow have this passion have this bag in me that I love to translate to capture to interpret what I see in front of me in a photographic way. You know, it's just, it excites me to these days. So, so far not able to stop I am not planning of stopping anytime soon.
6:12  Yeah, wow, that's, that's an inspiring story. And, you know, I always enjoy hearing where they first come across photography, and a lot of time, it's about the landscape, the travel or capturing a moment in itself. Now, I can know that you're a musician. Wow. That's just incredible. I know, I always wanted to learn piano, but I find it too difficult. I don't have the finger coordination. So I, uh, wow. I didn't admire that very much.
6:42  Yeah, and you know, and just to add to this, maybe where I draw this inspiration still to these days, it's very often for me about this. This interaction between music and photography, you know, being out there photographing, I don't listen to music on my headphones, you know, like, when I photograph some people do to get into the zone, right? But, but I very often sing about tunes, or, you know, remember in a specific pieces, you know, of music in my mind when photographing, and it kind of it kind of, you know, inspires me in the moment, or, like, changes the mood of how I see things. And also the opposite. When I play piano, I very often think about music and kind of sink in, in a way of, you know, images, colours, you know, see particular scenes, right. So it's kind of as what's the word symbiotic, you know, kind of experience, I mean, music, photography, it's, they fuel each other, in my case, and I'm really enjoying this process.
7:55  That's really interesting. I know, I've come across, you know, how music can change. And this was in, in an example of post processing, how to edit how to, you know, approach your photography, once you have it there. And a friend of mine kind of introduced it as like, man, you should try to listen to different music and see how you feel about your photos. While you listen to that. So I'm actually quite intrigued about this, right? Since you're, you're an actual professional musician, as well as photographer, how, when you when you go out there, and like you say, right, you go out there you you see a scene that you want to photograph? How do you pick the music to connect you to that scene? And you know, once you pick that, do you ever change kind of the music to get a different perspective of the same scene?
8:51  Yeah, so in my case, just like I mentioned before, it's a bit different. So I don't actually listen to music. When I photograph I don't I don't, you know, have any kind of headphones or I don't choose tracks. It's rather in my case, it's it's rather some engineer. It's kind of but it's, I imagine it, then it's a very natural process. I don't like three plan. You know, I will be thinking about Mozart, you know, whether it's something that happens in a in a in the moment. It's a very, what's the word? It's like a mutual influence kind of mechanism. On this
9:28  moment, ah, yeah,
9:28  it can also happen that I, you know, let's say I come to you or, you know, I go into, I don't know, Indonesian mountains. Right. And, and the scene itself, provokes, or like, you know, resonates in a special way with a certain, you know, something comes to mind. And in my case very often connects to a specific genre or even specific piece of music, you know, and then I kind of keep going down this rabbit hole. Right, and kind of very special artistic effects are like, you know, impressions a very special reaction start occurring. And it's like a spiral. Kind of
10:11  Yeah, I mean, you know, when I say play the music, I'm not saying in a literal sense, but you know, in your head can opinion imagining, yeah, that's yeah, that's, that's really cool that you do that and, you know, it's something that I, I'd like to explore as well to get that creativity going. So tell us a little bit about your photography, what is what is your photography and what you're trying to achieve, like, what you photograph and what you are trying to achieve when you are taking those photos. So
10:45  I, you know, it's kind of difficult even to myself to always to put the finger or like to define and I know, it's, you know, applies to many photographers, like, for, for a long time I was, quote unquote, like, we do very often searching right for my own style for my own. Today, I don't define it anymore as searching, even though I'm still I'm, I'm reacting to too many different things. And it's mainly I think, in a visual way, in a, you know, I'm reacting to shapes to lines to shadows to, and it does not matter so much. In my case, if it's a landscape in front of me, or if it's a piece of furniture, or if it's a human being or an animal, you know, it's kind of a you know, in any given sin. So my photography, predominantly, when I find time to do it, these days, I'm also getting frustrated, you know, these these days with, with so many tasks, and I'm really trying hard to plan my photography time, by my own photographic time. But when I, when I go for it, you know, I, I am this kind of photographer, I go out in there, I go out there and I and I started observing, I started observing the surroundings wherever I happen to be right. And I'm kind of looking for, for those special people know juxtapositions of lines of light. So in the meantime, create the images I create, and I can share some with your viewers at some point, if it's possible, you know, are kind of abstract, I like black and white a lot. So the kind of abstract, but they're not really abstract, because this is a representation of the real world in front of me. But it's very often, you know, small fragments of buildings, it's not the entire scenes, it's not the entire landscape scene is a, it's a very tight crop, or is a very tight, you know, part of the scene or is a very, it's a, it was a corner of a building with some cracks in the wall, you know, and this creates this new life by itself in itself, you know, this new kind of being, which I am fascinated by, so, you would have to look at a few images, it's difficult to define, but I am basically in some way. Yeah, fascinated by any kind of visual creations, you know, being the nature creations or human being creations, and I'm documenting those little details.
13:15  Yeah, so I actually, you know, the reason why I asked that question is because I saw some of your photograph. And the way you frame your photograph is just incredible, right? I think there was one photo where it was it was, it was a glasses or something like that. And then you play with the shadow and the highlights. And it turns out, totally different than you know, the way you sit. So it's incredible how you observe, and you look at what is in front of you, and you create something that is totally different, you know, out of it. Now, one thing that I'm interested, you know, like you say you'd like to do landscape, you'd like to also do a lot of this abstract, as well as intimate photograph of wherever you go, you know, whether it's a glasses that you wear, or the buildings around your city or the nature. So how does the, you know, share with us the feeling that you get when you capturing those different moments? Is that does that spark the same type of emotion? Or is it different and give you a different satisfaction altogether?
14:28  This Excellent question. I mean, I have never been asked this question, but it's really excellent, because I just love you know, thinking about these kinds of things and talking about it. But it will not be the easy answer, of course, because it's so personal. And so, you know, it's happening on such an intuitive level. But I love this challenge of trying to put those things into words. So thanks for letting me Yeah. Yeah,
14:54  I really do enjoy asking a really hard, you know, thoughtful question. I love to make up So I
15:00  absolutely love it. You know, that's, that's what it's all about, you know, when, when you really get into photography, right? I think you asked about the emotions Yeah, or emotion I'm experiencing. On one level, this is definitely some kind of a similar emotion, you know, when I'm in the landscape or if I'm on a, in a parking lot, you know, and looking at some lines on the, on the floor and cracks, it's on some level, it's a similar thing I am. And I can basically getting goosebumps, you know, it happens is like, you know, where I, where a certain set of elements in front of me, starting or falling into place for me, you know, for for what I am kind of reacting to, and those elements, those lines start, start creating this, this, this new form, or this new, you know, kind of scene or so, it can be, you know, a range of mountains with sun rays, and, you know, shadows of trees, but it can be also a couple of stones in the parking lot, you know, on a on a white line, you know, whatever it might be my emotional, this great question, how would I, I think I would just, I mean, the simplest words, I would, I would describe my emotion as excitement. Because, you know, he's getting goosebumps is like, I think his fascination is purely a fascination I get about the surrounding world, you know, and on a deepest, deepest level, I think it's some kind of thankfulness for that I am able to experience this kind of fascination. You know, so many people work, we know it, so many people walk their, their streets, you know, the, you know, the cross the same, you know, cross, you know, crossing the look at the same buildings every single day. And they just ignore them, because, but I keep looking, I can be walking, you know, I spend most of my time at home, of course, and walking the same streets every day. I always keep looking, I always keep discovering different stuff. Because I look so close, I've tried to look, I'm not even trying, it's just happening. This is who I am, right? So it's difficult to explain. And then when I noticed this thing, this one thing and you know, when I just have to grab my camera and start experimenting, and you know, working, so people are looking at me, it happens, is it some kind of a weirdo, you know, because I always my camera down on my knees or whatever it might be, you know, looking for, for those elements. So I think it's this combination of fascination with those visual elements, but also kind of like a, what's the word great gratefulness for, for being this way for being able to notice those things? So it's quite a big pointer. It's quite a deep emotion. I mean, it's quite a Yeah, to be honest, it's quite quite a big part of my life.
18:05  I can totally resonate with that. You know, like when you find something that really intrigued you, and it really not only make you grateful, being able to enjoy that moment, but also energise you, and I think that's that's what passion is, right? And that's why we love doing this, because it energises and makes us excited, like you say so. Now,
18:27  you also you also use, like, excellent where I was missing these words energising me. Yeah, absolutely the same. It's yeah, when this moment happens in the morning, let's say my whole days, like, on fire, I'm energised is perfect. But you also described it in a perfect way here. Exactly.
18:47  And that's, that's really cool. I mean, you know, I think a lot of us feel very similar emotion. Now, one thing, you know, I'd love to go into some of your, what you've done with the community. But we're just one more question before we get into that, that really fascinates this, about your approach is that so Okay, as a landscape photographer, for example, like you know, I travel I do landscape and adventure and it's, it's a lot easier to get drawn or to see the things that you know, attract your eyes, right, because it just there it jumps on it. There is an aurora boom, it's you know, attracts your eyes, there is an ice cave, there is a mountain it's right there right. Now, what you do in some of your photography is totally different though. Right? It's, it's something that is, I'd like to say the grandest thing in the grandest detail in the bigger scheme. So in the big big world, everywhere, everything where most people are looking for that big thing. You look for the small detail that actually is very intriguing, very powerful that can create an evoke emotion like what you do. Right? So what? What intrigues you about those smaller detail? Like, you know, what intrigued you about the shape what intrigued you about the cracks, like what attracted you, like, you know, what attracted you to the smaller details, like it attracted us to the mountains or the stars and so forth?
20:27  Well, so, yeah, very interesting, because but, you know, it's the discovery kind of thing, because, let me give you an example, if I have never been to Indonesia, right. So if I think about going there visiting you, and you know, you may be showing me some amazing places, I can already feel excitement, because I haven't seen it yet. It will be new to my eyes, it will be new to my senses to everything, right. So automatically, I will be also photographically triggered, I mean, this is I would love to capture it, you know, in the way I am experiencing this place, right. But I think what I learned, and when I say learned, part of his part of it is, of course, in some way planted in ourselves, you know, we, we have this dose, we have this interest, we have this passion somewhere there, it's I think it's in each of us somewhere there, but it doesn't serve us every single time. So, you have to kind of practice it, you have to once you realise this moment, you have to you know, so you asked about those little details, for example. Why should a little detail a crack in a straight, you know, creating some kind of shapes creating some kind of pattern, whatever, which I have never seen before? Why should it excite me less than a, you know, line of, of a range of mountain range, which I have never seen before. It's just, it's just a different element. It's a big, big landscape scene. But this is a small thing here somewhere hidden, you know, at the corner of my street. But by itself, it's a visual representative, it's a visual. It's a visual, I don't I'm looking for a word, you know, it's a visual. I mean, it's an image, it's a sin, which, which is out there in front of me. For me, it becomes almost equally exciting. Because I have never seen it before. Wow, look at this crack, look at those lines, what's this, and look at those mountings. So for me, it kind of the line got blurred, I can't differentiate anymore, I don't have to I'm and I'm happy, I don't have to because I get excited about this few stones on the street. And I get excited about the mountain range in Indonesia, which I haven't ever seen before. So I think it's, it's working in a similar way. You know, what I also want to add is very often when, you know, pointing a camera at something, or photographing something in particular, you know, being again, this mountain range, or some kind of object in front of me, and I probably, many of us have the same feeling it's, of course, we pointed the camera in a certain direction at a certain element. But I feel like what's coming into this final photograph is also everything else, which we are experiencing, you know, with our body with our senses, smells, you know, touch, wind, whatever it might be. So it's all around me, which inspires me and tries to I'm trying to convey this feeling, you know, which is living inside of me, you know, based on all of those elements and essences, I'm trying to convey in this, you know, four by three kinds of frame, which I am, which I'm composing. Yeah, I could go forever and always, but you can sense it's kind of, it's a big kind of experience. It's a very complex experience. But I can have it exactly in a grand, amazing scene, you know, of one of the, you know, most exciting landscapes in the world or whatever. But I can have it also in my bathroom, right. Yeah, that's, yeah,
24:25  that's incredible. And I think, you know, a lot of photography personalities anyway, because of the social media doesn't appreciate that smaller detail doesn't appreciate that point of discovering something new, you know, and I know like a lot of, for example, like a lot of people, a lot of people that wanted to learn from me, they say it's like, well, you know, I can't travel like you do, but you just show how you could have the same excitement for the same passion and energy and energy From the things that could be around a corner of your house or even in your house, and, you know, like, the word travel doesn't necessarily mean you have to fly to the other side of the world and really love
25:13  Yeah, we tend to forget that some of the most famous, most respected and, you know, photographers in the history of photography. And you can really start with names, of course, like, like Cardi B song, he was walking the streets of his town, right? He was not travelling to Venezuela, and you know, Fiji, and wherever he was walking the streets of his town, and he's in the history books, because he was seeing things around his neighbourhood. Right, and capturing in a way that we just, we start drooling when looking at those images. And he was for sure excited about the things you know, so just take the camera, start walking your street, but start looking, you will see things which you have never noticed before, because you you were dreaming about travelling to Japan or to Korea or China, you know, so yeah, photograph, photographs are everywhere, right? Photographs are really everywhere, and you can start also crafting your own visual language, just on the streets of your of your own neighbourhood, you know, you will be really surprised. So, yeah, I think I
26:31  really, I really, really love what you just said there. Because, you know, I think the social media and not just you know, because now we're in the attention, time, right, where everything has to be fibrin, and ground and all that stuff. So we forget the small details that make a big difference. And you just, you know, kind of show how even the smallest thing could make a big difference in your photography. So I really enjoy that. Thanks for sharing that. Too much. Cool. So, you know, so when I come across your community, you know, your, your magazine, I see something different, you know, it's not the type of things that I came across, in, in normal photography. World or, you know, place and I'd like to hear a little bit more about what inspired you to start frames? And what is your vision and mission with the frames magazine?
27:37  I think yeah, so we are starting to touch on this on this community aspect, you know, of my activities. And, you know, like, in a nutshell, what we have been just talking about for the last, you know, 20 minutes you can see how excited I'm getting how, how, how happy I am to, to, to keep sharing those ideas, you know, I don't know now with your listeners on a, you know, at home with friends, when we're having coffees, and you know, I get the same I get, you know, energised exactly and excited and I think at some point, you know, in my life I do, I realised that I have this urge to, to share this excitement, to open people up to you know, to inspire them to, to exactly to start telling them you know, about the possibilities, you know, which are endless when it comes to working on your own art, you know, exactly in your own surroundings, you know, to do, to unlocking to to unlock their potential potential, you know, artistic potential, and so on, so forth. So, at some point I realised, I, I'm also enjoying it, and you know, and I also realised that people really start reacting, you know, to, to my own excitement. So, I think that's when it all started that I realised that I, you know, I'm, you know, I open to, I started a Facebook group, basically, yeah, I think it was the very beginning of frames, you know, I started a Facebook group and started to you know, interacting with other members, you know, talking about the photographs, sharing mine, and so on and so forth. So I think my passion to photography got combined with this urge with this need to, to interact with other people and you know, and kind of growing together because I also learned so much, you know, from from other members, it's just, it's just amazing and, you know, and it's an ongoing process and that's how it started the community, you know, the groups on internet and then in the end, I also felt like I wanted to give those people this outlet, you know, to present their work in a in a printed fashion which is, you know, you would again, think today in the world. to social media and all digital, I wanted to also show them because I also print myself quite a lot, you know, and I was always really happy, really fascinated with how the images, you know, end up looking on paper, or you know, or when you hang them on your wall. So I wanted also to show them this, you know, not everything is happening on your, on our computer screens, try this, try showing to, you know, send me your images, maybe we can print them in my, in the magazine, and so on, so forth. So, yeah, you know, just, I guess these are those elements, you know, passion plus this edge of connecting, you know, like we are now you know, like, again, now we are connecting with your community, you know, to to your podcast, it's just amazing what, and of course, technology is helping us today in a crazy way. I mean, we you are in Valley, right? Yeah, I'm in Switzerland, people listening in New York, it's just crazy. We forget how thankful we should be to, you know, when I think about my parents life, the first few decades, such things didn't exist. It's just insane. Right? So yeah, we are blessed, and then we should be really thankful. And then I think I'm kind of, yeah, using those channels to, to, to connect to spread the love, you know, right to to photography.
31:24  Yeah, that's incredible. You know, I, I love seeing photos on the screen and social media. But when I print those photo, it's a different feeling right? When you can see it and touch it and see it on your wall, I have a few on my wall here as well, you know, and it's just a different feeling. And I really enjoy it. And I know exactly how you feel. So I really like the idea of printing your photos in magazine and so forth. And I think that's really cool. So, you know, once you kind of build that community, and you come up with this idea of, you know, what, maybe there is another way of getting people out of the computer, even for just you know, a few minutes or you know, an hour or two and going through some of those art in an old fashioned way where people have more time. Because I think one of my biggest problem about consuming art in social media is not the screen itself. But the attention span, like people seems to just scroll and stop appreciating you like, oh, yeah, cool, or, you know, nice, great, you know, but it's, they never really stopped, right? Because there's always going to next note, there's going to be next notification. Next, pop next, whatever it is right with the technology. But when you look at it in an old fashioned way, you kind of switch off and you know, when you look at an art in a magazine, or in a printed fashion, you have the ability to kind of isolate yourself in the art itself. And that's what I love about it. So, when you come up with this idea, right? Oh, you know what, we should share these magazines and stuff like that. What? I'd like to hear a little bit more about what it did journey on getting to where it is right now. Because right now, you're on what fourth edition?
33:27  This is 10th edition we are working on has had a crazy time. socializations Yeah.
33:35  So and so how do you go from you know, having simply just a community of people who passionate about photography, to having a 10th edition quarterly edition. So that's almost three years now you're coming into the three years mark, and that's just incredible. So how did how did that journey go? And what are some of the challenges that you came across to get to where you are right now.
34:04  You also needless to say, you know, translating an idea to reality, it requires certain steps, you know, determination and but, you know, division of the printed photography magazine was pretty strong in you know, I had it in me for for for some more years, you know, and the whole frames magazine story started actually when the when the pandemic, you know, hit the world. I had more time, right, more more time at home, but also I felt and you know, after having some conversations with people, I felt it's a, funnily enough, I mean, not the worst moment to try and to do it because, you know, people were looked at homes so we couldn't travel and photograph as much as we would like. But we at the same time, or even more, we were then we are looking for some sources of inspiration, you know, for some to keep us here on this on this is, you know, our levels of excitement and artistic you know, you know, having those influences. So, yeah, great started when, you know, in parallel with COVID Now when it comes to steps, you know, I had the vision and and I made the decision myself is just, it's just gonna happen. So, step by step learning what was there to be to be learned, you know, and overcoming any kind of obstacle which was there, you know, like looking for printers, learning how to, you know, translate the digital files into a right print profiles, you know, and sending them to printers, and then looking for distribution, day by day, step by step, just, you know, I was following my plan. And the only thing which was, you know, which kept me going was my very clear vision, I just, I just pre visualised this, this magazine in my hand. And step by step I was, I was just going after it, you know, and it was not always the easiest thing, of course, in the beginning, you know, you have to pull it off, you have to organise everything you have to make, make sure that you are not going bankrupt. Along the process, right, this is a printed magazine, they are completely different costs when it comes to printing. And, you know, my vision was also going really for the, for the best possible quality, which I, you know, I could possibly afford, you know, and the photographs had to look just beautiful, you know, we are giving each each photograph in the magazine, it's dedicated page. So it's, that, that ties nicely to what you were talking about before, you know, we want people looking at the photograph to slow down, right? We, you're looking at one image at a time, it has space, you can concentrate on it. So you turn the page, you know, and it starts speaking to you, because there is exactly, there's no distractions and no notifications popping up from the printed pages. You have to sit down somewhere, you know, find your corner, you know, have a glass of wine, maybe or you know, have a coffee, just be careful not to spill it and you start enjoying it but enjoying an image one, one in one photograph at a time, right? And it's a big difference. So you can start this. And of course, the format is bigger than on a, let's say, on an iPhone or on a phone. Right? So it's a completely different way of interacting, interacting with a photograph. Yeah, so yeah, step by step, you know, and yeah, many hours, many sleepless nights. And here we are. So but today, I'm really really happy with it. And so and so seems to be many other many, you know, of our subscribers and readers. So, it's possible. Yeah, it's possible just and, and it absolutely applies to everything, what what your own, you know, personal vision might might be, you just have to, we tend to think about the goals right? Very often, we have a goal. And we, we fixate on this goal, but you know, like with with every other goal when when you want to walk from point eight, A to Z, or that right? There is B, C, D, E, F G on the way which you can skip, nobody can jump so far right? You have to make 26 steps from A to Zed is it 26 Either way, but no. Just make your small steps. Keep making each step you know at a time and you will get to your goal. That's it. Wow, that's my This is nothing. But this is nothing you know, it's nothing. It's not a huge discovery of myself, you know, but I also had to learn it. But today I know if I said any other goal for myself, I know it will take time, effort and those steps and that's it. The problem is so many of us give up after B because it feels difficult, it takes a bit long, you know or maybe there's something distracting. And then we get frustrated because we don't get to the goal but the satisfaction of getting to the Zed point is huge. And you know the feeling of accomplishment and you know believe in yourself and in your vision. And then you look back and look at those Yeah, exactly. Like you know asked me about all those small steps and they were there. I didn't you know, send out a few 1000s of magazines that first week I did it right. But it needs this time and those steps along the way. No other no other way to achieve it.
39:58  That is so inspiring. That is so in aspiring and you know, I guess with this again the era of right now it's all about instant right? Everything is instant you you you buy from Amazon, it's their next day you you look at, you post something you get likes right away and along the line, I think we we forgot something very important in our life that the process the journey to get there. And this is so inspiring, you know what you mentioned here? Because, well, first of all, you started a physical product during pandemic where it's very difficult right to go out there physically. And most people are studying virtual stuff, and you study the physical stuff. Second thing, I have printed photo books myself, I've you know, I have searched for not only a good quality, but an affordable one to be, you know, to so that it's profitable, and all that stuff. And I know how much effort that comes, you know, the search, the discovery, the different bits and pieces, and you know, where you try to show the importance of the quality to the printer because they just print it, right, they don't understand art. So when I saw your, your, what you do and what you put together, I was very intrigued, because, you know, I know how difficult to put that together. But you know, hearing your story here is just incredible. Because you're absolutely right, we have to go to the A, B and C and D and you know, so forth. And maybe you skip a letter, but you can't skip, you know, 10 letters that well.
41:45  And also, you know, and one one last thing, I mean, we tend to forget, or like get kind of maybe scared or discouraged by by exactly by the process itself. But we tend to forget that this entire process is also an enjoyable thing. It's not like it, okay, depends on your approach, but it I was not suffering, I was enjoying this process, I was enjoying the challenges and efforts, you know, sure, if I will be suffering physically will be different thing. But you know, if you have division, you if you want to bake a cake, you have to bake the cake, you have to look for ingredients, you have to go shopping, you have to start mixing them, you have to bake it, people are usually enjoying, right. So it's the sales, we don't forget that the process itself might be NT usually is an enjoyable thing if we are working towards the goal we are excited about. So but somehow we have this nature that we often get discouraged by the amount of steps, right? Because we think oh my God, so many things to work on, that each of those things, each of those steps is enjoyable, if it's something you enjoy doing. So don't let those you know, like little steps and dip the entire process and timeline. discourage you it's Yeah. And I think
43:17  that's, that's very inspiring. And I want to I want to kind of elaborate on and touch a little bit more into that, that that what you just mentioned there. So, you know, like a lot of us really, like you say we want you we have a goal, and we have this vision and we want it to happen right away. Like everybody wouldn't happen right away, right? It's just your nature. That's that's okay. But you say something that's, I think, very important, right? That along the line, there are process, and there are ways to enjoy the process. And you know, one thing that I want to get your take on is think we can recognise that not everything that we need to do from A to Zed is going to be enjoyable, but you manage to find the good and enjoy it anyway. So one thing that I'd like to get your opinion on or your wisdom on is how can people do that? Right? When they going when they have a vision in mind when they want it to go to that? And they're currently at A or C or you know, G how do they enjoy the each one of the step, the journey to get there so that they don't give up so that they don't get discouraged so that they keep going and push themselves forward to get to their goals.
44:41  So I think the well this is, again, a great question, not an easy answer, because you know, everybody functions differently and so on so forth. And every project is different, bigger, smaller, you know, but okay, if we if we if we like to break any kind of process into those steps you're starting at a Let's say you get to be, first of all, you have to give yourself a really strong pat on the back that you have to be because you know, 90% of people don't get to be really like nine. Most most of the people working on similar maybe are dreaming about similar projects or goals. They don't even start. It's a bit sad. I would love to encourage encourage those people to to you know, to go on and but it's the fact because most there are so many I'm unconvinced, there's so many amazing ideas in the world, they are not even getting started on. So nobody gets makes it to be. If you make it to be you should celebrate. You know, let's say you want to make a photography book. So what you did today, you took a piece of paper, you wrote seven ideas, and you sketched the cover of your book, you should celebrate 90% of people didn't even do this this step. And I think in turn, it will encourage you to okay, what's the what's the C step? And suddenly you are at F and K, you know, people saw a really Yeah, celebrate little steps along the way. Tell about them. Tell about the yo yo your family, your friends, you know, whatever. You know, I sketched my book today on a piece of paper looks amazing. I'm so excited. Yes, you should be. Because you 99% of other people dreaming about the book didn't sketch them, their book on the on the piece of paper, it's huge. I tell you, let's think about it this way. And if you manage, and you know, every next step, when you accomplish it, it will fuel you, I guarantee it will inspire you to go on. And in a way, okay, this might be the point you were asking about. And in a way, every next of those steps gets easier. Because you start believing in yourself, you start celebrating it, you start getting more excited, you start getting closer to your goal, you know. So then like you say, maybe you can skip one letter, but you can skip you know, 25. But if you get closer to the goal, you get even more excited, right? It's like we are running a marathon and you see the goal. You can be exhausted, but you will keep running right. So yeah, that's it. I think that's it, you know, but and I think you are going to we're going to actually ask me about the end at the end of the of the podcast, you know, to the disk device, so I will keep it so I will keep it to the end of the episode.
47:56  Yeah, that's I mean, that's, that's perfect. You know, it's, it's something, I really, I'm very thankful that you brought that up, because I feel I went through that period of, you know, never, always focusing on the lack, right, you get to be you get to see you get to D but the thing that I think about is that, yes, I get there, but I still have all of the steps that I haven't got there. And I think most people kind of stuck on that bit. And it discouraged them. So 100% I'm so grateful that you brought it up. And I think it's very important that the listeners out there hear this because it is very true. You know, like, like you say you you build up a momentum from your little wins. But you really need to reward yourself from from doing that. And a lot of us forget that the small steps are a big MC are the one that makes a big difference. So very well put, you know, I really enjoyed that. Thanks a lot of time, you know, for putting that true, but you need money that you say that, you know, you're saving, there's less wisdom, where can I come into the one hour mark, and we're gonna get to your wisdom right now. But one thing that I want to touch before we get into that is that now you're developing an app right for your community and for people and you have also you putting together a group of photographer and you know, in the form of photo club, right. So just give us a little bit a little bit background on how do you feel that the app and photo club can help you. You know, deliver your vision through through this through this platform. Because at the end of the day, all of this is just a platform, right? Whether it's a Facebook or Instagram, but the way we We use it is up to us as human being as Creator as a visionary. So, what have you got envision? And how do you vision people use the app, as well as you know, being part of the club can help you reach that vision.
50:20  So, yeah, just briefly, so everything ties, you know, into, to back to this idea of community. And because because I think about frames as a community, you mentioned it also few times. We were working on mobile photography app. And it might sound now a bit contra intuitive, you know, coming back to the idea of, you know, photography belonging on paper, but just to make things clear, of course, frames photography, we know printed quarterly magazine is the is the kind of main pillar of everything, what we are, you know, about, at Francis about this is we are the most proud of, you know, the printed magazine, the idea of mobile application started kind of in those, you know, weeks or months, where, where Instagram was getting some kind of critique, and maybe still getting, you know, from the photography, photographers community, you know, when it comes to the algorithms, or the idea that they now prefer, you know, maybe showing more video in the app than then still photographs. I'm still, you know, actually, to be honest, I'm enjoying Instagram a lot, you know, and I'm also getting connection over there. And in my personal feed, you know, Instagram feed, everything is actually looking pretty, pretty nice, you know, I can't play but I can imagine, maybe based on your location, geographical location, whatever it might be, your Instagram is maybe behaving differently. So anyway, I, of course, I heard about many complaints about from photographers about Instagram. And a week, you know, I came up with the idea of creating a, quote unquote, proper photography app. I mean, Instagram is a great photography app, but it's not per se, a photography app. I mean, it started as a photography app, basically. But what it is today is, is a social media platform, right? Kind of photography heavy, maybe now more video heavy, I don't know, what we are creating is a friend's photography app. And it's a purely and really heavily oriented you know, photography oriented photographer oriented application, we will be having things like portfolios, you know, photo series in it, you will be able to share, you know, you will be able able to export, export your your foot portfolio and share it with with whoever you want via email, you know, or via special link and so on and so forth. But everything ties back to again, to community, the idea is to gather enthusiasts, you know, photography lovers around this app, you know, to be able to also look at people's work and look for people we could be potentially, you know, featuring in the printed magazine, you know, we will be also having a special fit in the app, you know, where we'll be it will be a kind of like a again, like a kind of like a magazine. But you know, of course different from the printed magazine, it will be more informative with articles not on gear, we are not going into gear, there's enough technology and everything is there are some great great platforms out there right. But we will be covering you know, photography, photography, ideas, thoughts, you know, portfolios, conversations with photographers in the app itself. So next to your portfolio, your photo your you know, friends and people you follow their, their work right. And their their feeds, you will have this in app magazine, which will be inspiring you again, so you will have two sides sharing your own work following other people's work but also getting inspiration from from photography related content. Nice things the thing to mention I can mention earlier today is that the application will be completely free of charge. So this is again a nice one a nice bonus here. And at the same time yeah, we are you are right, we are launching what's called a friends photography circle. This is a membership kind of club, you know, you can think about it like as a as a you know, think about your local photography club, does that still exist, where you really go in there and meet friends you know, and start discussing photography, having guest speakers, you know, this will be happening in the, in the friends photography circle, of course, mainly online because we will be international. But we are thinking also about you know, having meetings in the future we are thinking about working towards a friend's photography book, yearly yearly photography book. But again, what's the most exciting about it is, you know, we'll be making friends around the world and you know, hopefully meeting each other in the future, you know, working on exhibitions together and so on and so forth. So, yeah, if I can mention, if it's okay with you, you know, just quickly, it's, it's still possible to, to, to join to apply, you know, to reframes photography circle, you can visit our website, you know, drop me a message to the contact form, and I will, you know, share all the necessary details here. But yeah, many things happening. Yeah, definitely, towards the end of this year.
55:24  Yeah. Wow, that's, you know, I really love that. And I think one of the things that really intrigued me about the app that you're putting together, when you have it as an idea, still I saw, you know, on the on friends Facebook group, is that, how you're focusing on the immersion to the photography, right, instead of just a scrolling app, like to say, an attention grabbing app, right? You have this the immersion into one photography, with the story with the interaction, and I think it's great, you know, you mentioned about that, like, you know, portfolio and, you know, the interface and stuff like that, and you put it very well there, you know, that it's, it's, it's good to have, I mean, we love the you know, the entertainment part of Instagram and Facebook, and that's what they're moving across to right. But at the same time, we also miss that time where we can connect to a deeper level. And I think that's something that we really miss in this new era. So I really enjoy that. And you kind of couple that with the photo club as well, photo circle, you mentioned now, just quickly, actually, you know, like, before we get into that, I might, I might ask you this, the last question first, and then we get into that now. So it's been really great conversation, I really appreciate having you here. And you've dropped a lot of wisdom, a lot of new perspective, which I think it's really important in our life, right perspectives. Now, what is that one wisdom or one advice that you would give either your younger self or anyone, if they ask, you know, like, Tomash? If there is one advice that you could give me, what would that be?
57:22  Yeah, so most probably will be the one which I kind of talked about already, but let me like, rephrase it and kind of put it into in a in a shorter, you know, form is, if you have a dream goal idea. You know, you are really, you know, striving to to achieve and, you know, keeps you awake at night, and so on. But you feel a little bit stuck on, you know, maybe overwhelmed with with the whole concept of this of this goal and and make a quick reset in your head and go out and tomorrow, make the first step, make the smallest step towards this goal. Because it can it can really, like, trigger the avalanche. You know, like, I know, and I know it myself and exactly is is the younger me. I was, you know, maybe not courageous enough, maybe doubting my own ideas, and, and some of them never came to fruition, of course, you know, but I learned this lesson and and that's what I apply today. If, if you have an idea or a goal, you have a goal, which of course you believe in, you know, it's a viable goal. But you kind of feel a bit stuck and overwhelmed, maybe scared to go this path, but you really want to want it right, make the first step. It can be one email, it can be one sketch on a piece of paper. But it's one step. You know, it's like avalanche and snow avalanche in in the mountains. A little ball of smoke or you know, a little what's the flake of snow can trigger a huge avalanche, right? Just just make this step and make it tomorrow. Or even better today, right? And you will you will reach your goal. You know, you'll be so much closer to reaching your goal. So that would be it. I think I didn't keep it really short. But yeah, I
59:25  know, my point. Yeah. I love that. I love how you use the, you know, the analogy of small flake can make and can create an avalanche and I think that's what we're working towards right and being patient to keep making that. Keep trying that small flick until the avalanche happened. That's, that's that's what we want to keep doing until the goal is right in front of us. So thanks a lot for the wisdom. Donation. It was it was incredible. You know I really enjoy that I really enjoy your perspective and the way you see photography and new world. So yeah, like I guess one thing that I want to get to understand why you know the listener might be interested about this as well is share with us a little bit about the photo club when they join you know, what sort of experience they will get to be to be part of the friends community. And you know, how how, how it can help them to appreciate either photography or even improve their photography at one point or another.
1:00:39  Yeah, so maybe before I mentioned really a little bit in detail what it's all about so just to clarify, I mean, frames magazine when you become a subscriber to frames magazine you are becoming basically a you know, a member of our community. You can also become a member of our community without subscribing who just consult for us on Facebook let's say yes, we have a group and but of course, I encourage you very much to have a look at the magazine it's a different experience you know, it's a printed magazine so when you become a subscriber, you automatically get access to some you know, digital content as well, which is accompanying the printed magazine and is our basic offering and this is what what we are all about. Now the friends photography circle, you know, and it comes up three years after when you know, frames was actually born. It's this most in depth, you know, group of photography enthusiasts, you know, it's something for those people who who really, absolutely want to, you know, study you know, follow learn from from those best photography sinkers, you know, and talkers and, you know, gallery curator, curators, photographers, we will be having this kind of environment within this, you know, friends photography circle. So, when it comes to elements of this, of this of this club, we will be having meetings with those guest speakers, so exactly photographers, museum gallery curators, you know, add other editors and so on so forth, we will be having self curating meetings of the group when we will be looking at each other's photographs, you know, and kind of curating them towards this yearly goal of of publishing a friend's photography book. So being a member, you are kind of guaranteed, you will get your image into this book, right, but we will be working on it together discussing those things, we will be having an open weekly frames cafe, so is a virtual place, which you can pop in once a week, you know, every week, and start making those friends you know, and start making those other enthusiasts from from other places in the world discussing we will be popping in there. Also some guests, it's kind of like a virtual cafe. So, and then of course, we will be having some kind of critic photo critic sessions you know, like being them from from those guests, you know, from the you know, our guest speakers, they will be looking at our photo add members photographs, right, but also discussing them with with each other, right. And then in the end, we are also planning of Yeah, it would be the jewel in the crown, yeah, to, to organise if maybe a few on location meetings of frames clap, you know, in different in different locations around the world, you know, and ideally, also with one of those acclaim photographers, you know, to join us on those meetings. So, again, as you can already feel this is, again, about community, of course, we will be providing our members with all those, you know, lectures, talks, you know, presentations, critiques, but we really want to make sure that friendships are being formed that this photography passion is what starts connecting, you know, and forming new ideas within the club. So the friends photographer, circle will be a club, which will be evolving, naturally formed by ideas and you know, input from all its members, it yeah, pretty sure will be an amazing experience, you know, and, yeah, we'll be lovely. If you some of your listeners, who would, you know, as I said, just drop me a message to the website, and I will be more than happy to serve some more, some more details.
1:04:34  Fantastic. Yeah, that's, that sounds like an amazing club to be in, you know, like, just listening to what you share and the community that you have on Facebook is, you know, very, very lively, very engaging, and you know, on the other platform as well, as well, as you know, you're creating your own platform. So that's very, all very exciting. Well, too much. You know, thank you very much for being here really thoroughly. Enjoy our chat. and getting to know you better. Now for the listeners who want to get to know you know, the frames magazine yourself as well as the the photo club where the the circle that you're you're putting together for 2023 Where is the best way to get in touch with you.
1:05:20  So the absolutely best way is just to visit, you know, the frames website. So you can go to read frames.com You know, and then follow the links in the menu, you will, you will find the links to all all the different exactly elements of our platform magazine and the club. You know, there is also many, many articles on the website itself, which we are you know, releasing every couple of days, there is a there is a new piece. So read frames.com. And I think it's the number one, I mean, the best, the best place to to get started with frames.
1:05:55  Fantastic, yeah, we'll, we'll put some of the link on the comment on the description below. So don't worry, it's all gonna be there. So go to that I'll we'll also put the link to the Facebook group, if you want to be part of the community as well as the the way the contact form in order to get in touch with Tomash. If you want to get, you know, to join the photo club, it's, it sounds like an amazing experience, you know, especially with what we've been through in this recent years, you know, I think it's more than ever we people are realising that, that passion is very important because we it's like a wake up call, right, we finally understand how important our time is that there is no guarantee it's going to be tomorrow. And we never know when it's going to be too late, you know, so? Yeah, I think more than ever, we should focus on our passion and pursue that so well, so much. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much for being part of the podcast, sharing your journey, sharing your wisdom and well we can hunters, hopefully you enjoy that. That podcast, that conversation, a lot of wisdom dropped there. And don't forget to say hi to Tomash if you enjoy this, you know, give him a sense of appreciation. And please feel free to contact him go to the website and check out what he's been building. It's an absolutely incredible community as well as you know, if you like like Tom, I say if you don't want to be a subscriber yet, then it's okay. Go to the Facebook get involved. Because I can tell you it's a really good community. Well, with that being said, you know, we've been here for a little over an hour now. Thank you for you know, hanging out with us and you know, chilling and I always think about this podcast, like a chill in a coffee coffee cafe. So it's, it's it's great to kind of just hang out with you. Well, thank you, Thomas, for being here. And yeah, we'll we'll keep chatting and we'll keep connecting.
1:08:08  Yeah, Stanley, thank you so much for having me. It was really great conversation and everybody. Remember about your first step today.
1:08:17  That is a great advice. All right, we can just don't forget to hit the subscribe button and also leave a review if this is something that you enjoy. But with that being said, I'll see you guys next week.